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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 01:41am
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1. What is the outcome of a made free throw when a member of the shooting team is occupying the lowest lane position??
2. Is there any option to have a common foul as result of new "excessive elbow". Ref got the mechanic correct but if it was PC, why award free throw (in bonus). It was not reported as flagrant, nor technical, nor intentional, which I believe are the only choices. 11U travel game Fed rules in effect Thanks in advance for your replies
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) 
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 01:57am
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Quote:
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:07am
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plz remember I'm just a coach.
Kindly explain double violation on F/T
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.)
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:44am
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I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:50am
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It's also a violation if a teammate of the shooter is in either of the first spaces. Since each team violates in this case, the FT is cancelled and the 2nd FT is shot, if we're shooting 2. If not, the team with the AP arrow gets the ball for a spot throw-in on the baseline. I've seen a lot of officials ignore the violation, if the FT is good, since the violation had no effect on the shot.
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 02:53am
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__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 03:30am
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This is from the Points of Emphasis #4 Rough Play Section E. Excess Swinging of Arm(s)/Elbow(s) -When there is no contact with an opponent is now a violation. -If contact is made, the official must judge the severity of the act and possibly even determine intent. -A player control foul, an intentional foul or a flagrant foul may be called. Rule 4-19-6 ...A player-control foul is a common foul committed by a player while he/she is in control of the ball or by an airborne shooter. Therefore, if the player has the ball and the official judges the contact to not be intentional or flagrant, it is a player-control foul which is a common foul. If the player does not have the ball, I believe that the rule demands the call be intentional or flagrant as there is no other choice.
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 03:49am
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__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 04:48am
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[/B][/QUOTE]Nope,if you don't think the elbow was intentional or flagrant,you just call it a common foul. R4-19-2. [Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 23rd, 2002 at 03:51 AM]
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 05:35am
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[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 23rd, 2002 at 03:51 AM] [/B][/QUOTE] JR, My point is that a simple common foul is not among the options given in the first line on page 69.
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 06:00am
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My point is that a simple common foul is not among the options given in the first line on page 69. [/B][/QUOTE]Nevada,my point is that the reference that you are using from P69 refers only to a player with the ball swinging an elbow and making contact.If the player does not have the ball and hits somebody with an elbow,as you stated above,then that statement on P69 simply does not apply.According to rule,you can now call a common foul,an intentional personal foul or a flagrant personal foul-your choice.Your statement above infers that you can't call a common foul on a player without the ball who hits somebody with an elbow,only an intentional or flagrant personal foul.This is not true.See where I'm coming from?
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 07:07am
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JR,
I can certainly understand your point because before this rule was put in this year, we still called fouls for hitting people with an elbow. It is interesting that you automatically took the comments on page 69 to be about a player with the ball. I did not make that assumption. Lastly, the original question that was asked specifically stated "excessive elbow" when inquiring if a common foul could be called. I do not see how something that is excessive could be a common foul. If it is away from the ball and the "player causes excessive contact with an opponent" then two criteria cited in the definition of an intentional foul are met. The quoted words are from 4-19-3. So, I will stand by my statement that if an official calls an excessive elbow and contact was made by a player without the ball, it must be either intentional or flagrant.
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 10:57am
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Sorry for omitting specifics on (2) but I thought it was implied when I mentioned PC foul. Player had secured ball after rebound. I don't believe there was any contact. My question is why were ft's awarded and the "foul" treated as a common. My take is it should have been violation with no foul of any sort assessed.
__________________
Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.)
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Mon Dec 23, 2002, 11:45am
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Quote:
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
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