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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 08:29am
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Unfortunately, Brad closed the "People Skills" thread before I could make my actual point. I was simply waiting for someone to point out that my claim about the all-female crews was not true (which, of course, it's not). I was then going to object that my claim was based on my opinion, my personal interpretation of the facts, and therefore could not be contradicted, despite its obvious falsity.

I'm pretty sure that point had some relevence to the "People Skills" thread, but I won't belabor it. Additionally, since I think I've shown the obvious falsity of Jeff's position, I will make no more contributions to the topic.

Thanks for putting up with the whole 9 pages of the previous thread, which I think made the whole issue very clear.

Chuck
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 09:56am
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I was staying out of that thread, although I read it. I also just read the Toni Smith thread that was just closed. I wish it wasn't because I had a reply for you buddy Jeff regarding one of his comments that went:

"Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war. That is the reason they joined in many cases."

Talk about generalizations! How dare he try to characterize not only MY career but millions who have come before me and those who will follow. I can't even continue to right what I really feel in a public forum, I guess I'll have to send him a personal email. Unbelievable that someone could make a statement such as that.

Mregor
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 10:52am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mregor


"Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war. That is the reason they joined in many cases."

Mregor
That is a statistical fact. We have a volunteer Military. Most of the individuals that are in the Military have used the Military to get an education. Most of todays Military used the G.I. Bill or joined as a reserve to pay for the education. Over 30% of the Military is African-American alone and most used the Military to go to college. I know of several people now that have been deployed to Iraq or sent in support of this war, all in those cases got money for their educations. If that is a generalization, show me that it is not true. But I really do not care if you show it, prove it or not. The information is out there and you can find it or not.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Mregor


"Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war. That is the reason they joined in many cases."

Mregor
That is a statistical fact.

No it is not.
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 11:30am
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Lightbulb Exact quote.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Unfortunately, Brad closed the "People Skills" thread before I could make my actual point. I was simply waiting for someone to point out that my claim about the all-female crews was not true (which, of course, it's not). I was then going to object that my claim was based on my opinion, my personal interpretation of the facts, and therefore could not be contradicted, despite its obvious falsity.
"One of the main reasons it is not defined is because we have people on this board that think your test score is the determiner of what officiating is all about."

This was the quote from the post. This is obviously based on an opinion that I still believe and do not expect everyone to agree with. To me when an official on this board can praise an first year for knowing the rules by passing one test and not having to see plays and situations live and in technocolor supports this myth that officiating is about passing tests. And then every time you bring up this issue, someone give some example of what is stated in the rulebooks about "knowing the rules." Now I have never said that knowing the rules in not important at all, but people keep thinking and stating that this is what I believe. Personally I do not care what people think about my position. I just do not take the "company line" position and preach that passing a test proves anything. The only thing test prove is that you prove that test. They do not prove that you walked away from it and learned anything.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 11:32am
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Lightbulb Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


No it is not.
Is it not because you say or is it not because you have statisitical proof that my statement is not true?

I will let you answer that one for yourself.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 11:42am
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Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


No it is not.
Is it not because you say or is it not because you have statisitical proof that my statement is not true?

I will let you answer that one for yourself.

Peace
You made the claim, show proof (oh wait, I recall you've been down this road once with Chuck...I guess I won't hold my breath.)
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:08pm
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Re: Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


You made the claim, show proof (oh wait, I recall you've been down this road once with Chuck...I guess I won't hold my breath.)
I have already referenced my proof. Just because you do not accept it does not mean that it is not true. You are the one claiming that it is false, show me why it is false. Do not just say, "that is not true," and expect me to agree with you.

We have been down this road before, you and I. So if you are saying that over 50 percent of the todays Military did not use the G.I. Bill or any governement program to get an education, show me the statistic and I will say that you are right and we will end this conversation.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:18pm
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Re: Re: Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref


You made the claim, show proof (oh wait, I recall you've been down this road once with Chuck...I guess I won't hold my breath.)
I have already referenced my proof. Just because you do not accept it does not mean that it is not true. You are the one claiming that it is false, show me why it is false. Do not just say, "that is not true," and expect me to agree with you.

We have been down this road before, you and I. So if you are saying that over 50 percent of the todays Military did not use the G.I. Bill or any governement program to get an education, show me the statistic and I will say that you are right and we will end this conversation.

Peace
No, that's not what I'm saying, and believe it or not it is not what you said originally. You said "Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war.... I'll agree that no one wants to go to war (well...99% anyway). I would hope that 100% of service people take advantage of every single benefit the government offers during their time in service & when they are done. But there's quite a difference between "people join the military to get money for college" and "people eligible for military benefits tend to use them".

And no, you never answered Chuck's question.
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:25pm
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Okay, JRutledge, you've made two claims here that need to be addressed.
First of all, you claimed that "most" people in the military are there for school benefits (GI Bill). You have no basis to make that claim. The fact that someone uses the GI Bill IN NO WAY means they joined the military solely for that purpose. The only way you could possibly make this claim is if you did a statistically accurate survey that asked these people their reasons for joining the military. I've known many in the military (throughout my career) who joined for various non-school reasons, and ended up using the GI Bill. People use the program because it's there. Also, I'm relatively positive that more than 50% of the people in the military are beyond their first enlistment. Anyone who reelists must, in my opinion, be there for reasons other than the GI Bill, because they are actually postponing its use.
Are there people who join for that purpose? Sure. Probably a high percentage, but to make the claim that more than 50% did so is not supportable.
Secondly, you claimed that "over 30% of the military is African-American alone." This is simply not true. Every statistic I've seen places that figure around 20%, not 30%. I'm trying to find more sources than just CBSnews.com, but can't find much right now.

SNAQWELLS
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:37pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
No, that's not what I'm saying, and believe it or not it is not what you said originally. You said "Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war.... I'll agree that no one wants to go to war (well...99% anyway). I would hope that 100% of service people take advantage of every single benefit the government offers during their time in service & when they are done. But there's quite a difference between "people join the military to get money for college" and "people eligible for military benefits tend to use them".

And no, you never answered Chuck's question.

So you are telling me that the people that joined the Military, joined to go to war and only go to war? Maybe that is true but that seems based on an opinion than something that can be proven. My statements are not about each and every soldier's deep personal belief system, but about what is being done as a condition of their enrollment in the military. If you join the United States Armed Forces and use the sitation to further your education, then to me you have joined for that purpose. Otherwise you join and do not take any advantage of any of the services that provide money for an education.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:44pm
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http://dod.mil/prhome/poprep2000/htm.../c2_raceth.htm
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:53pm
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Question Are we talking deep personal views?

Quote:
Originally posted by Snaqwells
Okay, JRutledge, you've made two claims here that need to be addressed.
First of all, you claimed that "most" people in the military are there for school benefits (GI Bill). You have no basis to make that claim. The fact that someone uses the GI Bill IN NO WAY means they joined the military solely for that purpose. The only way you could possibly make this claim is if you did a statistically accurate survey that asked these people their reasons for joining the military. I've known many in the military (throughout my career) who joined for various non-school reasons, and ended up using the GI Bill. People use the program because it's there. Also, I'm relatively positive that more than 50% of the people in the military are beyond their first enlistment. Anyone who reelists must, in my opinion, be there for reasons other than the GI Bill, because they are actually postponing its use.
Are there people who join for that purpose? Sure. Probably a high percentage, but to make the claim that more than 50% did so is not at supportable.
Secondly, you claimed that "over 30% of the military is African-American alone." This is simply not true. Every statistic I've seen places that figure around 20%, not 30%. I'm trying to find more sources than just CBSnews.com, but can't find much right now.

SNAQWELLS

I just read a report that 34% of the United States Armed Forces was African-American. Even if it is 20%, that is way above the percentage of African-Americans in the larger society which is around 12%. To me personally, that is a problem on many levels.

Again, if you think it is not above 50%, then show me the percentage that is not. I have seen and read reports that most of the military uses education services. And if you think every joined the military to serve the country for the same reasons you think they did, I will always take issue with that. Everyone does not view this current war or the reasons for what happen on 9-11-01 the same. They just don't.

Peace
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:53pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
No, that's not what I'm saying, and believe it or not it is not what you said originally. You said "Most of the people in the military now are there to go to school, not go to war.... I'll agree that no one wants to go to war (well...99% anyway). I would hope that 100% of service people take advantage of every single benefit the government offers during their time in service & when they are done. But there's quite a difference between "people join the military to get money for college" and "people eligible for military benefits tend to use them".

And no, you never answered Chuck's question.

So you are telling me that the people that joined the Military, joined to go to war and only go to war?

Where did I say that?

Quote:

...If you join the United States Armed Forces and use the sitation to further your education, then to me you have joined for that purpose. Otherwise you join and do not take any advantage of any of the services that provide money for an education.

Peace
Most people who go to Yankee Stadium will use the restroom. Therefore people go to Yankee Stadium to use the rest room.
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Old Mon Mar 03, 2003, 12:58pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just because you say it is?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

Most people who go to Yankee Stadium will use the restroom. Therefore people go to Yankee Stadium to use the rest room.
I thought most people go to Yankee Stadium to boo the Red Sox.
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