facial Hair on Officials

[WindyCityBlue]

From J Rutledge on the basketball board 11/17/04 (it was closed shotly thereafter) -

I will keep it to officiating for a second.

Name one white official that has facial hair at the D1 or pro levels of any league?

I cannot name one.

Guess what, I can name several African-Americans that do.

Johnny Grier--NFL (there is another Black Referee or White hat that has a mustache; I just do not know his name right now).

Steve Paman--Big Ten Football

Danny Crawford--NBA

Tom Rucker--D1 Official retired

Donny Gray--D1 Basketball Official, Big Ten, ACC and Conference USA to name a few.

(There is even one in the Big East, but I do not know his name)
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I can only speak for my sport, baseball, but there are hundreds of D-1 umpires with facial hair. Most of them have moustaches, a few have goatees and a couple sport full beards. Some shave because it is more comfortable wearing a facemask, others don't shave for the same reason. I can think of a handful of Minor League and Major Leaguers that have moustaches, as well. None of these umps are black.

I'm also aware of a condition called "nubs" that afflicts african americans and blacks worldwide. The facial hair is coarse and curls back into the skin, often painfully, causing in grown hairs. This may be another reason why most prefer to keep clean shaven in a world of sweat and stress.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I'm also aware of a condition called "nubs" that afflicts african americans and blacks worldwide. The facial hair is coarse and curls back into the skin, often painfully, causing in grown hairs. This may be another reason why most prefer to keep clean shaven in a world of sweat and stress.

Windy,

The shaving causes the hair to grow back into the skin. Not letting it grow.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

I wasn't really concerned with the why as much as the who.

I was just pointing out another example of a generalization not based in fact.

[JRutledge]

That is not even a generalization.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


I can only speak for my sport, baseball, but there are hundreds of D-1 umpires with facial hair. Most of them have moustaches, a few have goatees and a couple sport full beards. Some shave because it is more comfortable wearing a facemask, others don't shave for the same reason. I can think of a handful of Minor League and Major Leaguers that have moustaches, as well. None of these umps are black.

No one I am talking to was a baseball umpire. Baseball is a totally different animal. In baseball you can wear a uniform that is not the same as your partners and that is still considered professional. In football if one official wears long sleeves, we all wear long sleeves. In basketball if one person wears a jacket in pregame warm-ups, we all wear jackets in pregame warm-up. In both football and basketball the things that are acceptable are not the same as baseball. The very reason you do not see any football officials wear sun glasses while working a game. It is not considered professional attire. I know Windy you seem to think everyone thinks or cares about baseball, but you cannot name one white official in football or baseball at the levels I just mentioned that has any facial hair.

Rich Wiley a former D1 Football and Basketball official from Chicago (former member of one of my current associations) made this statement, "Only Black guys can wear facial hair." Mr. Wiley is the only official to work a Final Four and a Rose Bowl in his career. Now I know he was not talking about baseball or gave a damn about it in his comments. You are right, there are many white umpires that wear facial hair, but I did not make the statement on the baseball board. I know this, I was told to remove my goatee for basketball. I have never been told to do anything with my facial hair in baseball.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

No one I am talking to was a baseball umpire.

Exaggeration #1: We have multiple basketball officials that also work baseball. I know of at least three moderators...should I go on?
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Baseball is a totally different animal. In baseball you can wear a uniform that is not the same as your partners and that is still considered professional. In football if one official wears long sleeves, we all wear long sleeves. In basketball if one person wears a jacket in pregame warm-ups, we all wear jackets in pregame warm-up.

Exaggeration #2: Are you speaking for every state and every level? I didnÂ’t know that you were versed in all of the pertinent uniform codes. Do the white coats use the same standards?
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In both football and basketball the things that are acceptable are not the same as baseball. The very reason you do not see any football officials wear sun glasses while working a game. It is not considered professional attire.

Exaggeration #3: I saw a Public Game the other day (yes, it was varsity day game) and two of the officials were sporting Oakleys. I guess that they were more concerned with being able to see the play than complying with your preconception. Also, I travel all over the country and have seen officials in Texas, Florida and Arizona wearing eye protection.
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I know Windy you seem to think everyone thinks or cares about baseball, but you cannot name one white official in football or baseball at the levels I just mentioned that has any facial hair.

Oh, Oh Rut, Windy Got you!: LetÂ’s see, when I had lunch with Tim Tschida last winter, I could have sworn he had a moustache. Maybe he was just eating really hairy soup!
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Rich Wiley a former D1 Football and Basketball official from Chicago (former member of one of my current associations) made this statement, "Only Black guys can wear facial hair." Mr. Wiley is the only official to work a Final Four and a Rose Bowl in his career. Now I know he was not talking about baseball or gave a damn about it in his comments. You are right, there are many white umpires that wear facial hair, but I did not make the statement on the baseball board. I know this, I was told to remove my goatee for basketball. I have never been told to do anything with my facial hair in baseball.

If you shaved because an assignor told you to, then you are dumber than we thought. I didnÂ’t know that the Constitution was abolished. Secondly read this line from your quote again...

“Name one white official that has facial hair at the D1 or pro levels of any league?”

Are you telling me that we should have known that you meant that this doesn’t include baseball? “pro levels of any league” sounds like you were including it to me. Stop trying to spin and twist your lies, it is getting ridiculous!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Are you telling me that we should have known that you meant that this doesn’t include baseball? “pro levels of any league” sounds like you were including it to me. Stop trying to spin and twist your lies, it is getting ridiculous!

Well, my comments were on the Basketball board. I would assume that anyone I was talking to would refer mostly to basketball or even football since those were the only two sports that I referenced or was talking about. I guess you could assume baseball if you wanted to. You have that right and can do so. But most people did not seem to take issue with my comments except for you. You are the only person that took these comments and tried to put into a context of baseball. I think it would be a leap if someone used Soccer or hockey as an example based on the conversation we were having on the basketball board. There are more pro leagues than the NFL or NBA in those respective sports. There is Arena Football and World League Football and Canadian Football League. On the basketball side there is WNBA, NBDL, ABA and CBA just to name a few. So if you want to take the comments and put them into a sport I did not reference or care to talk about, that is your prerogative. Now if I referenced Major League Baseball, then it would have made since. But you did not hear me make one reference to any umpire in MLB or the minors, so I would not suspect anyone would be thinking of those sports. But then again, baseball is your life. It is not the life of everyone on that board and many people realize what goes on in the Majors (arguments, umpire conduct, conflict resolution) never takes place in the other sports that I am familiar with.

As stated before, you do not work any other sport outside of baseball and you never have. So I could see why you would be confused. I am still waiting for an example based on the sports I used that I am incorrect?

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

Keep waiting...you got caught again.

Your words tripped you up, not mine.



Just for the record, I have officiated other sports. I chose to concentrate on the one that I was best at and enjoyed most. Like I've said before, I would rather be outstanding at one sport than mediocre at several. You are not Jon Bible, no matter how much you pretend.

While you are waiting, why don't you start comparing our resumes and accomplishments. You stated that you could measure up. I have also noticed the absence of the member that accused me of being a wannabe JUCO umpire. Funny, but the truth sets you free!

[JRutledge]

Sure Windbag that was it. Anyone that works more than one sport is mediocre at them.

I think you need to stick to baseball. It is the only sport you can be fat and be successful. That is something to brag about.

Peace

[imaref]

Hey Windy.....

Why are you so vitriolic? Has life dealt you that many bad cards that you appear not to have anything else to do but find fault in everyone you contact? (What a great personality for an official!)

Why not just leave....the forums would be much more positive and informative!

wl

[WindyCityBlue]

Are you obtuse?
The tripe that spills from little Rut's fingers demands retort. He has plied his lies, exagerrations and bad advice for years. Many have taken him to task - I'm just better at it. In our little hamlet (the third largest metro area in the U.S.) I receive dozens of emails and phone calls lauding my attempts to prevent him from spreading his version of the truth. You are too new to remember that what prompted my zeal was his statements about Chicago baseball and umpiring. He is o the outside looking in and it shows. Look at how he closes each post - it is so important for him to feel important. The problem with that is that new members may actually believe his writings. He has been chastised here by more than one umpiring group director. He challenged my experience, accomplishments and want to conceal my identity. Now that it is known, he realizes that I am every bit his nightmare - my resume doesn't lie. I will retire when he does.

[Skahtboi]

Hey Mick:

Can we create an argument forum just for these guys who seem to thrive on this?

[WindyCityBlue]

I love the closing thought.

The Taliban prefers the same thinking.

Disputing lies, half truths and helping people understand another way is the sign of an advanced intelligence. If you would like, I can offer some advice on seeking cultures that condemn contrary thought and we can arrange a move.

I prefer to live in a world that allows discord. Advancements can only take place when one finds a problem with the status quo.

Lastly, this is a general discussion forum. We are offered this as a concession to spilling over onto more sport specific boards. Maturity dictates that you don't have to listen to Rush or Howard; like the radio, internet options abound.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Are you obtuse?
The tripe that spills from little Rut's fingers demands retort. He has plied his lies, exagerrations and bad advice for years. Many have taken him to task - I'm just better at it. In our little hamlet (the third largest metro area in the U.S.) I receive dozens of emails and phone calls lauding my attempts to prevent him from spreading his version of the truth. You are too new to remember that what prompted my zeal was his statements about Chicago baseball and umpiring. He is o the outside looking in and it shows. Look at how he closes each post - it is so important for him to feel important. The problem with that is that new members may actually believe his writings. He has been chastised here by more than one umpiring group director. He challenged my experience, accomplishments and want to conceal my identity. Now that it is known, he realizes that I am every bit his nightmare - my resume doesn't lie. I will retire when he does.

I think you need a good woman in your life. You do not seem to have one right now, because if you did you would not worry about what I or anyone had to say.

None of my comments had anything to do with baseball or Chicago baseball to be specific. If your "friends" you claim have a problem with what I am saying, have their behinds confront me and say something. Outside of that, please do not tell me what people think that not only do not know me, but have never heard me speak publicaly on the issues we are talking about or know why I stand for my position.

You sound like the coach I had last night in a game and complained. He also thought that I gave a damn about what he said just like you actually think I give a damn what you say. I just entertain you because it brings me a laugh and a giggle. Life is too short and I like having fun and making life interesting.

Peace

[mick]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
Hey Mick:

Can we create an argument forum just for these guys who seem to thrive on this?

Scott,
Without an audience, the discussion may stop.
mick