Foul Behind the Basic Spot

[robert.gdp]

The one thing I have found about being in the military for 20 years is that one must stand alone to accomplish a goal. As i have received my response from the NFHS, i was correct. For all you OLD timers who refuse to pick up a book and read. (can't teach a old Dog new tricks) the rule reads from the time of the snap until there is a legal kick or forward pass, all actions ("IN OR BEHIND") the basic spot (LOS) the enforcement will remains the same regardless of the actions which takes place, The "Previous Spot"..It remains a Loose Ball Play and ends when there is a forward pass or kick... Once the ball goes beyond the LOS, and is secured, then you will have a running play form that point forward.

As the rules states, A loose Ball play is started from the snap, and any action that takes plkace while the ball is behind the LOS, it still remains a loose ball play...................

Reading is fundamental.........................

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by robert.gdp

As the rules states, A loose Ball play is started from the snap, and any action that takes plkace while the ball is behind the LOS, it still remains a loose ball play...................

That is completely untrue and is verified by the very basic rules that have already been posted.

Whatever it is you think you have from the NFHS, you've either misunderstood or misrepresented to them. You actually contradict yourself in your own post.

Reading certainly is fundamental. So is understanding Rule 2.

[Welpe]

I'm going to add one thing and see if it clarifies anything for you. Let's break your original play down and put it on a time line.

From your post:

QB receives the snap, drops back and due to pressure, scrambles about 15 yards behind the basic spot (LOS) where he was tackle by the face mask (5 yards).

As you can see, and supported by rule, the loose ball play is over when the snap was caught and the running play began. There was never another loose ball of any kind in this play.

The fact that the play happened behind the LOS is immaterial in this case.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by robert.gdp

The one thing I have found about being in the military for 20 years is that one must stand alone to accomplish a goal.

Hmm...been in for 15, never had that lesson. What I have learned is that:

A: When people don't listen to reality, people die, and
B: People that beat their chest about being in the military generally didn't accomplish much.

If it helps, I'm not an "old dog." I'm not even a football official. I'm learning the rules so if I decide to make the plunge, I know what I'm doing (or are less unknowing of what I'm doing.)

[CT1]

You're being obtuse now.

The case book comment you referenced includes the following: "When any foul occurs during a free kick, scrimmage kick, legal forward pass, backward pass (including the snap) or fumble made by A from in or behind the neutral zone...even if several of these actions happen during the same down...the basic spot remains the same, the previous spot which is the spot of the snap or free kick."

The facemask foul in your OP didn't happen during one of those events. Therefore, it's a foul during a running play, with the basic spot being the end of the related run.

[HLin NC]

So now there is no such thing as a running play, EVER, since every scrimmage down begins with a snap.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

So now there is no such thing as a running play, EVER, since every scrimmage down begins with a snap.

In his definition the loose ball play turns into a running play when the runner crosses the neutral zone. I've had people struggle with loose ball play and running play, but nobody has ever struggled this way. Hopefully we can kindly explain it so he understands it correctly. Don't get rude or mean to someone trying to learn.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

In his definition the loose ball play turns into a running play when the runner crosses the neutral zone. I've had people struggle with loose ball play and running play, but nobody has ever struggled this way. Hopefully we can kindly explain it so he understands it correctly. Don't get rude or mean to someone trying to learn.

It has been explained, and I'm not so sure he's trying to learn.

[HLin NC]

Sorry bison but if you go back to his OP, you will see he contends a snap is a loose ball play, according to his reading of Rules By Topic. Greater, wiser minds than I have tried to point out the error of his theory.

He digs his hole further by calling us OLD timers, emphasis his, and insults us by claiming we don't read the rule book. At some point stupid is as stupid does.