Clean hands and PSK

[Warrenkicker]

If you read the bottom of page 6 in the Rules Book you will see why each state can come up with their own interpretation on PSK double fouls.

[Theisey]

States can modify what rule 1-7 says they can do. There are specific rules listed there and PSK is not one of them.

For the NF editiorial committee chair to come out and say to do what your state interpretor says to do really shows they have no control... and that is what is wrong.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally posted by Theisey
States can modify what rule 1-7 says they can do. There are specific rules listed there and PSK is not one of them.

For the NF editiorial committee chair to come out and say to do what your state interpretor says to do really shows they have no control... and that is what is wrong.

Sorry but 1-7 does not cover rules interpretations. 1-7 covers some special equipment questions and game administration questions.

If a state wants to tell it's officials that when there is holding away from the play to not call it just like NCAA or NFL then by all means they have that right. A state can use any set of rules it wishes. NF are just the rules that most everybody uses. There have been other posts here where junior high games are using NCAA rules.

[KWH]

Originally posted by Theisey
States can modify what rule 1-7 says they can do. There are specific rules listed there and PSK is not one of them.

For the NF editiorial committee chair to come out and say to do what your state interpretor says to do really shows they have no control... and that is what is wrong.

Theisey-
The bottom line is simple.
They NFHS has left some gray area's unanswered. They have recognized some of these issue's and will attempt to "fill the gaps" when they meet in January. Until that time, (which includes the entire 2003 season), if rules interpretations are required, you are to issue your questions to your state rules interpreter.
By the way what is New Yorks official interpretation?

Now lets get real,
If teams punt 8 to ten times a game, and
a PSK foul occurs once every 8 to 10 games, then,
how often will a K foul coupled with a R PSK foul occur?
My prediction is once every 80 to 100 games!
A lot of officials out there will not see this happen this season. Others will not see this happen in a career!
However, before you all stone me to death, I agree, Yes, we still need an answer if it were to occur.
To get the correct answer for the 2003 season contact your state rules interpreter.
Does this mean different states will be interpreting this situation differently?
Not really, I would rather look at it this way:
During the 2003 season some states will be working under the old 2002 rules while other states will be experimenting with the (2004?) rules.

My 2 cents

[insatty]

The confusion among the powers that be on this issue is remarkable. The California Football Officials Assn. Study Guide includes a whole section of PSK principles. Point No. 9 states unequivcally that R can decline K's foul in a double-foul situation and keep the ball after PSK enforcement. Case closed? NOT!

Last night at our meeting, we are told that Instructional Chairman John Pemberton issued an interpretation that the down is replayed in a double-foul PSK situation, directly contradicting the Study Guide.

California has now recalled the Governor and the Study Guide.

[cmathews]

Insatty, is there any chance that Gary Coleman, or Ahhnold will issue a ruling for us???

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by cmathews
Insatty, is there any chance that Gary Coleman, or Ahhnold will issue a ruling for us???

I want Mary Carey!!

[cmathews]

you can bet if she issued a ruling it would be a stripped down version of the rule.....

[insatty]

Even if Arnold issued a ruling, the liberal media would only want to report his 30-year-old interviews about his orgies.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker

Sorry but 1-7 does not cover rules interpretations. 1-7 covers some special equipment questions and game administration questions.

If a state wants to tell it's officials that when there is holding away from the play to not call it just like NCAA or NFL then by all means they have that right. A state can use any set of rules it wishes. NF are just the rules that most everybody uses. There have been other posts here where junior high games are using NCAA rules.

### So show me then were it says that "your/my" state intrepretor can change say rule 10-2-1 to suit themselves? You can't because there is no basis for it in the book.

That comment on page 6 regarding model interpretations says it all.. If you want an interpretation, your state is to contact the NF as they are " the sole and exclusive source of model interpretations of NFHS rules".
The last sentence in that comment box obviously means nothing to some.

I also don't buy your comparision of how to handle a double foul during a PSK situation with a holding call. NF in the years past has published guidlines regarding holding so that we don't call holding on offensive linemen every play.
We all know, the point of attack and limiting the ability to persue the runner are key in the call.

There is nothing to interpret with regard to the double foul nor should any state be changing it to suit them.
Hey, don't get me wrong.. I expected the double foul rule to have been changed to match what they experimented with last season. That would also match the NCAA PSK rule. But the fact is they did not change it despite many saying they did change or are being told to enforce it as if it was changed.
I and others do not like it, but I say too bad for this year. We can put some pressure via the state interpretors to get it fixed next season.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by KWH

Theisey-
The bottom line is simple.
They NFHS has left some gray area's unanswered. They have recognized some of these issue's and will attempt to "fill the gaps" when they meet in January. Until that time, (which includes the entire 2003 season), if rules interpretations are required, you are to issue your questions to your state rules interpreter.
By the way what is New Yorks official interpretation?

double foul will result in a replay. Just as in NF situation #13.

Now lets get real,
If teams punt 8 to ten times a game, and
a PSK foul occurs once every 8 to 10 games, then,
how often will a K foul coupled with a R PSK foul occur?
My prediction is once every 80 to 100 games!
A lot of officials out there will not see this happen this season. Others will not see this happen in a career!
However, before you all stone me to death, I agree, Yes, we still need an answer if it were to occur.
To get the correct answer for the 2003 season contact your state rules interpreter.
Does this mean different states will be interpreting this situation differently?
Not really, I would rather look at it this way:
During the 2003 season some states will be working under the old 2002 rules while other states will be experimenting with the (2004?) rules.

My 2 cents

If they are calling under 2002 rules, then they'll not have PSK at all.. I doubt that. Even the most rules challenged coach will know when that enforcement should be called, especially when if goes against him.
We've already seen that quite a few states are calling PSK exactly like the NCAA, and others are calling it exactly like NF situation #13. I'll bet some will be calling it somewhere inbetween.
At this point, I really don't give a $%#@, I know how I'm supposed to call it here and I'll live with it with hopes they see what refinements are needed for next season. As I see it, there are two.
1) double foul oversite. Let R deline a K foul and have their PSK foul enforced.
2) the timing window. The window starts at the snap, and not wait until the ball passes the enz.

[Ed Hickland]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KWH

Originally posted by Theisey


Theisey-
The bottom line is simple.
They NFHS has left some gray area's unanswered. They have recognized some of these issue's and will attempt to "fill the gaps" when they meet in January. Until that time, (which includes the entire 2003 season), if rules interpretations are required, you are to issue your questions to your state rules interpreter.
By the way what is New Yorks official interpretation?

New York -- enforce as written. A double foul, replay the down.

[Theisey]

Well, I guess my wait is over... Game one in the books, PSK foul on second kick by the vistors (1st quarter). Nice diving block below the waist by the LB about 8-yards down field.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by Theisey
Well, I guess my wait is over... Game one in the books, PSK foul on second kick by the vistors (1st quarter). Nice diving block below the waist by the LB about 8-yards down field.

REPLY: I hope K didn't foul during the down!!!!

Bob M.

[Theisey]

Originally posted by Bob M.
[REPLY: I hope K didn't foul during the down!!!!

Bob M. [/B]

I was sweating that one out until the play was over as there were two flags on the play. As luck had it, they were for the same foul.
I heard hollering from the sidelines that "it's going to PSK right? right?" Guess which team too, the team receiving team. I'm pretty sure it was 4/7 so had it not been PSK, team K would have made a first down.