NCAA proposes changes to targeting, substitution rules in football

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

I don't think the actual snapping of the ball is what concerns the advocates of this rule. Many of the HUNH teams call their plays while at the line and IN POSITION to snap. Obviously, the defense can't risk substituting with a snap "imminent".

If the defense knows there won't be a snap until :29, they can plan their substitutions accordingly.

Exactly right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CT1

I don't think the actual snapping of the ball is what concerns the advocates of this rule. Many of the HUNH teams call their plays while at the line and IN POSITION to snap. Obviously, the defense can't risk substituting with a snap "imminent".

If the defense knows there won't be a snap until :29, they can plan their substitutions accordingly.

I get the concern, but the clock starts right after the play ends. Just hard to get the ball back and ready in that time depending on the play and where the play ends. It sounds like much to do about nothing. Granted I am not in love with this rule, and defenses already were given an opportunity to match substitutions when the offense made a substitution first. This already took a little more than 10 seconds even in those hurry up offenses. I do not think it would make that much difference either way.

Peace

[eyezen]

I'm no football referee but couldn't this be dealt without a rule change already by having the umpire stand over the ball and allow the defense to make substitutions regardless of how fast the offense lines up?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I'm no football referee but couldn't this be dealt without a rule change already by having the umpire stand over the ball and allow the defense to make substitutions regardless of how fast the offense lines up?

I would not be surprised if that is the mechanic anyway if this rule passes.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I'm no football referee but couldn't this be dealt without a rule change already by having the umpire stand over the ball and allow the defense to make substitutions regardless of how fast the offense lines up?

I think having the wing officials control it as in Canadian football would be better.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by eyezen

I'm no football referee but couldn't this be dealt without a rule change already by having the umpire stand over the ball and allow the defense to make substitutions regardless of how fast the offense lines up?

How long would you give the D to complete their substitutions?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I think having the wing officials control it as in Canadian football would be better.

How do the wing officials control this part of the game in Canada?

In college there are signals for any offensive substitution which is to inform the Referee that there are subs being made and that signal is supposed to be picked up by the umpire. Then the umpire stands over the ball. That is already done and probably realistically takes most of that 10 or 11 seconds to snap the ball, if needed. So it is already done on some level to prevent a quicker snap.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

How do the wing officials control this part of the game in Canada?

I don't know about "in Canada" (because they do play other kinds of football there), but in Canadian football, I thought you already knew this. I'm probably mixing you up with another poster, so I'll answer.

Once the ball is otherwise readied, or practically readied, for play, the wings look to the bench on their side to see if they want to substitute. If they don't see movement to do so, or once they no longer see such movement, they turn infield and put their arms out sideways. At that point no further substitution is allowed, and the time count begins to put the ball in play. Teams are not required to wait until the ball is otherwise ready for play to begin substituting.

The right person can correct me if I've got some of this wrong.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by CT1

I don't think the actual snapping of the ball is what concerns the advocates of this rule. Many of the HUNH teams call their plays while at the line and IN POSITION to snap. Obviously, the defense can't risk substituting with a snap "imminent".

If the defense knows there won't be a snap until :29, they can plan their substitutions accordingly.

Just make the act of looking to the sideline for the play call after the ball is ready equivalent to an A substitution. If A wants to call 2 plays in the huddle or if they can get the call from the sideline as they're running up to the line, they can still run them bang-bang. If what usually happens (like you say above), then once they look for that call from the coaches, B gets a chance to sub just like current sub rules allow. No muss no fuss other than the officials having to make an additional sub call, but how hard can that be when the entire offense suddenly turns like a bunch of prairie dogs to stare at the sideline?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I'm probably mixing you up with another poster, so I'll answer.

You are... They are both JR...

But JRut is not JurassicReferee.

[HLin NC]

But JRut is not JurassicReferee

Hardly

[Ruletool]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum.
Nice discussion about the substitution rule. However, I notice a real philosophy change on Instant Replay. By changing the use of Replay for targeting, in effect the replay official can now throw a flag for another foul (e.g. unnecessary roughness) when it wasn't targeting. That is new, I belief. I'm curious how this will evolve next years.
Fortunately not something we'll have to deal with over here in Europe
Football Rules Committee slightly adjusts targeting rule, defensive substitutions | NCAA Public Home Page - NCAA.org

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Ruletool

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum.
Nice discussion about the substitution rule. However, I notice a real philosophy change on Instant Replay. By changing the use of Replay for targeting, in effect the replay official can now throw a flag for another foul (e.g. unnecessary roughness) when it wasn't targeting. That is new, I belief. I'm curious how this will evolve next years.
Fortunately not something we'll have to deal with over here in Europe
Football Rules Committee slightly adjusts targeting rule, defensive substitutions | NCAA Public Home Page - NCAA.org

That's not correct at least for now. If the crew had UNR and targeting, they would announce both. If replay determined targeting did not exist, UNR would still apply so there would still be a 15-yard penalty. Same is true for other PFs like RTP and KCI. If they only rule targeting and replay feels it was not targeting but should have been UNR they are not able to rule that.

[Ruletool]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

That's not correct at least for now. If the crew had UNR and targeting, they would announce both. If replay determined targeting did not exist, UNR would still apply so there would still be a 15-yard penalty. Same is true for other PFs like RTP and KCI. If they only rule targeting and replay feels it was not targeting but should have been UNR they are not able to rule that.

Thanks for clarifying that, I misread the proposed change.

[sloth]

Aside from proposed rules changes, did anyone notice proposed mechanics changes from the CFO winter coordinators meeting? I found this one of interest...

Head Linesman/Side Judge and Line Judge/Field Judge will switch sidelines at half time. The chain and down box will remain opposite the press box. HL/SJ will work the first half on the press box side.