Packers-Bears fumble

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

If you are going to do that you would rule a fumble with nobody attempting to possess it. It would be Green Bay's ball at the location of the ball. You would not make this incomplete because nobody was acting on it.

A similar issue came up on this board in baseball or softball when a ball was batted near the plate, picked up in fair ground, and then the players on both teams acted as if it were a foul ball. The consensus seemed to be to let the players have it that way if that's what they believed, rather than ruling it as a ball in play with strange results.

The difference is that football, unlike baseball, has a rules provision specifically covering the situation.

However, a closely allied question came up here a while ago about whether it was good for an official to tell a player that a ball was still live after that player mistakenly let the ball down in his own end zone thinking to make it dead.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

A similar issue came up on this board in baseball or softball when a ball was batted near the plate, picked up in fair ground, and then the players on both teams acted as if it were a foul ball. The consensus seemed to be to let the players have it that way if that's what they believed, rather than ruling it as a ball in play with strange results.

Sure as hell wasn't the baseball board. That is not the right answer.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The consensus seemed to be to let the players have it that way if that's what they believed, rather than ruling it as a ball in play with strange results.

I'd be highly surprised if that kind of consensus were reached on either the baseball or softball forum.

Now maybe the LL forum on another site...

The correct answer for those scoring at home is:

Keep pointing fair until somebody gets it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I'd be highly surprised if that kind of consensus were reached on either the baseball or softball forum.

Now maybe the LL forum on another site...

The correct answer for those scoring at home is:

Keep pointing fair until somebody gets it.

That possibility was raised, but what to do when the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher, runners return to their bases, the batter stays put, and the pitcher delivers the "next pitch"?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

That possibility was raised, but what to do when the catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher, runners return to their bases, the batter stays put, and the pitcher delivers the "next pitch"?

You don't let the pitcher deliver the next pitch.

I think you are confusing this with a balk call followed by a batted ball followed by nobody moving. Here, enforce the balk.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You don't let the pitcher deliver the next pitch.

How can you stop him? The ball was fielded in fair ground and thrown to him, so it should be in play. He's allowed to throw a ball in play toward the plate, isn't he? Do you just blurt out, "Fools, the ball is in play!"?

Same question came up regarding a player fielding a kickoff under NCAA rules in his end zone and then attempting to flip it to an official.

I think you are confusing this with a balk call followed by a batted ball followed by nobody moving.

There may have been such a discussion here, but the baseball/softball situation I'm describing was also discussed.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

How can you stop him? The ball was fielded in fair ground and thrown to him, so it should be in play. He's allowed to throw a ball in play toward the plate, isn't he? Do you just blurt out, "Fools, the ball is in play!"?

Eventually someone's going to notice the plate umpire standing off to the side with his mask off pointing into fair territory and do something about it.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

How can you stop him? The ball was fielded in fair ground and thrown to him, so it should be in play. He's allowed to throw a ball in play toward the plate, isn't he? Do you just blurt out, "Fools, the ball is in play!"?

Stand between the plate and the mound.

And, yes, if the players are that clueless, an oral declaration to both sides that it's still a live ball is a possibility.

Frankly, if you let the pitcher get anywhere near the mound, then you're turning an interesting / unusual situation into something approaching Calvinball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Stand between the plate and the mound.

Ugh - no. Stand in foul ground, mask off, pointing fair.

And, yes, if the players are that clueless, an oral declaration to both sides that it's still a live ball is a possibility.

Please, anyone reading this - don't ever do that.

Frankly, if you let the pitcher get anywhere near the mound, then you're turning an interesting / unusual situation into something approaching Calvinball.

I'm not following this one. How would the umpire prevent any player from being wherever they want on the field? There's no way to prevent the pitcher from going to the mound/pitching circle ... especially given that he/she started there and very possibly never left.

On this play, simply get out from behind and point fair. Anyone who has worked lower levels has had this exact situation happen numerous times. SOMEONE eventually gets it. Pitchers who retrieve the ball aren't likely to pitch without the umpire back there... if the coach hasn't started yelling either "RUN!!!" or "THROW IT TO FIRST!!!" by this point, the pitcher might be the first one to figure it out. Hmmm.. why don't I see an umpire? Oh, there he is. Oh, he's pointing fair....

If, in some bizarro world TWP (which, in 21 years, I've never either seen happen or heard of happening from any of my umpires) the fielder retrieves the ball, gets back on the mound (or PC), and throws the ball again toward the catcher and the batter-runner, still with bat in hand, hits it - THEN we have interference on that BR, and can apply the proper rules.

DO NOT SAY FAIR. DO NOT STAND ON THE FIELD. DO NOT PREVENT THE PITCHER FROM GOING WHEREVER THEY WANT.

Rant off.