The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 04, 2013, 05:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Volume...we are much louder here.
True. I was at the Katy game last weekend - as loud as any college game I've been to recently.

(Side note - both my alma mater (Cy Fair) and my son's school (Katy) are still going - only 8 teams left in each bracket. Going for the daily double this year!)
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 04, 2013, 11:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
It's been my experience (multiple sports) that rules designed to prevent injuries are not supported by data as much as they are supported by one-off anecdotal stories or "what-if" fears.
True, because getting the data is a major job. The rule that was based on research was the disallowance of BBW following CoP, or at least the one following a CoP via kick.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 05, 2013, 12:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
Not that it matters to me too much, but I think more states should go NCAA. The Fed football rules are just bizarre in too many areas. States have all the ability they want to make their own modifications, unlike when using Fed.
Actually modifications to NFHS rules, determined by individual States, is fairly common. NFHS rules seem a lot less complex and offer far fewer exceptions than NCAA rules, perhaps why 96% of the 50 State High School Administrations choose NFHS rules.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 03:20pm
KWH KWH is offline
Small Business Owner
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Posts: 520
Post Just the Facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
Actually modifications to NFHS rules, determined by individual States, is fairly common. NFHS rules seem a lot less complex and offer far fewer exceptions than NCAA rules, perhaps why 96% of the 50 State High School Administrations choose NFHS rules.
NFHS states can and do make modifications to rules to makes the rule safer.

Additionally, all 98.94% (49 out of 51 which includes the District of Columbia)of states that belong to the NFHS each get one vote each year on each and every rule change.

Texas and Massachusetts get no say, no comments, no input, and no vote on NCAA rule changes. They never have, and they never will just as long as they choose to stay with NCAA. But then, that is there choice.

By the way, the talk around the water cooler is Massachusetts is seriously considering returning to the NFHS for football.

FYI - Texas and Massachusetts use NFHS rules for all sports except football
__________________
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 04:22pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWH View Post
Additionally, all 98.94% (49 out of 51 which includes the District of Columbia)of states
Math Fail.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWH View Post
Additionally, all 98.94% (49 out of 51 which includes the District of Columbia)of states that belong to the NFHS each get one vote each year on each and every rule change.

Texas and Massachusetts get no say, no comments, no input, and no vote on NCAA rule changes. They never have, and they never will just as long as they choose to stay with NCAA.
But why would they want such a say? It's not as if Texas & Mass. HS are playing football against institutions other than HS that also play by their rules, so their ability to affect NCAA would mean nothing to them. It might be different if Texas & Mass. were adjoining states where the schools frequently played against each other, in which case each state ass'n would have a slight stake in the rules the other one played by.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 04:03am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
I am sorry but I would never want to go to NCAA rules with only 5 officials working just about every varsity game and in many cases 3 or 2 officials working lower level games here. Too much blocking stuff would get missed and I think there would be a concern with safety of players. And NCAA rules are usually made for more advanced players as well in multiple sports. I do not see this necessary for HS kids. I get it that Texas uses these rules and probably deal with it well, but not everyone in other states is obsessed with football on the same level.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 08:30pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
It's not as if Texas & Mass. HS are playing football against institutions other than HS that also play by their rules,
That's actually not true for Texas. There are big name public schools playing early season games against out of state opponents and there are some private conferences that are made up of schools from multiple states.

I know of at least one anecdote where a team from Texas was playing a team from Oklahoma in Oklahoma (so they were playing NFHS rules). The Texas team had a TD called back on an illegal block below the waist that is legal in NCAA.

It's fairly rare but it happens. Texarkana is one place where this makes a difference also.

Truth be told, I really like officiating under NCAA rules (except for the craziness that is the blocking below the waist rules) but I think there are some strong arguments for Texas HS football to adopt NFHS rules.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2013, 11:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
That's actually not true for Texas. There are big name public schools playing early season games against out of state opponents and there are some private conferences that are made up of schools from multiple states.

I know of at least one anecdote where a team from Texas was playing a team from Oklahoma in Oklahoma (so they were playing NFHS rules). The Texas team had a TD called back on an illegal block below the waist that is legal in NCAA.

It's fairly rare but it happens. Texarkana is one place where this makes a difference also.
Sorry I worded badly what I'd wanted to say. The team from Okla. was not playing under NCAA rules, so it's not a case of what I meant. A case of what I meant would be a team from one association playing a team from another ass'n, both of which ass'ns use NCAA rules but are independent of each other. So, for instance, if a Texas HS played a NAIA college team, both would be independently under NCAA rules. That would be the only case in which having a say in NCAA's rules would matter to either of their ass'ns.

Since the team from Okla. was not playing by NCAA rules, it would make no difference whether the Texas HS ass'n had a say in development of NCAA rules or not. Also, it matters not to the Texas HS ass'n whether it has a say in NCAA's rules to the extent those HS play games with other schools in the same ass'n, because they're playing under whatever rules their ass'n says; it happens to be NCAA with some modif'ns, but any year they want to, the Texas HS ass'n could change to whatever rules they want to use or make up.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 18, 2013, 10:04pm
KWH KWH is offline
Small Business Owner
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Posts: 520
Thumbs up Jesus H Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am sorry but I would never want to go to NCAA rules with only 5 officials working just about every varsity game and in many cases 3 or 2 officials working lower level games here. Too much blocking stuff would get missed and I think there would be a concern with safety of players. And NCAA rules are usually made for more advanced players as well in multiple sports. I do not see this necessary for HS kids. I get it that Texas uses these rules and probably deal with it well, but not everyone in other states is obsessed with football on the same level.

Peace
Jesus H Christ - I actually agree with Rut!!! A very rare situation for me.

(I will probably go to hell for that one, aye Rich!)
__________________
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 11:16pm
KWH KWH is offline
Small Business Owner
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Portland Oregon USA
Posts: 520
Post Wtf???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Sorry I worded badly what I'd wanted to say. The team from Okla. was not playing under NCAA rules, so it's not a case of what I meant. A case of what I meant would be a team from one association playing a team from another ass'n, both of which ass'ns use NCAA rules but are independent of each other. So, for instance, if a Texas HS played a NAIA college team, both would be independently under NCAA rules. That would be the only case in which having a say in NCAA's rules would matter to either of their ass'ns.

Since the team from Okla. was not playing by NCAA rules, it would make no difference whether the Texas HS ass'n had a say in development of NCAA rules or not. Also, it matters not to the Texas HS ass'n whether it has a say in NCAA's rules to the extent those HS play games with other schools in the same ass'n, because they're playing under whatever rules their ass'n says; it happens to be NCAA with some modif'ns, but any year they want to, the Texas HS ass'n could change to whatever rules they want to use or make up.
I am sure glad you provided us with clarification and guidance?
My point was, unlike the 49 NFHS member states, each of which gets an equal opportunity to propose and vote on rules changes, each and every year, Texas and Massachusetts get no say, absolutely no input, and no vote on NCAA rules changes. Yes, TASO makes minor changes to NCAA rules for High school games, but nothing major...
__________________
"Knowledge is Good" - Emil Faber
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 01, 2014, 07:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,193
Quote:
Texas and Massachusetts get no say, no comments, no input, and no vote on NCAA rule changes.
This isn't actually true. Rogers Redding is the Secretary/Rules Editor and a former Texas HS official. The majority of football games played under NCAA rules are played in Texas high schools and jr. highs every year. While the rules are made primarily based on what the coaches on the rules committee think, there are changes Rogers has input on and he does most of the editorial changes himself. Rogers communicates with Texas HS officials -- heck, I've sent him an email. The input you speak of isn't substantial, but its a lot greater than none at all.

Honestly, how much input would a state that doesn't have a lot of football playing schools (I don't know of an example, but I'd venture somewhere between Washington state and the midwest) have in changes? To the extent this is an issue (and its not one at all), its so minor as to not worry anyone.

Quote:
with only 5 officials working just about every varsity game and in many cases 3 or 2 officials working lower level games here. Too much blocking stuff would get missed
This isn't a problem, either. Not saying that there are no 2-man games being worked with any regularity in the state (it could exist in some parts), but its rare. Games with 3 officials are by and large jr. high games where the blocking isn't very complex. As far as 5 in most varsity games, I'd have to ask: specifically what blocking stuff are you referring to, and how does the addition of deep flanks help? The kicking game at the varsity level is the biggest issue with 5 or fewer officials and I don't see how Fed rules would make this any easier.

Quote:
And NCAA rules are usually made for more advanced players
Give me an example of an NCAA rule that is intended for advanced players and not HS.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 01, 2014, 08:07pm
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
Quote:
Honestly, how much input would a state that doesn't have a lot of football playing schools (I don't know of an example, but I'd venture somewhere between Washington state and the midwest) have in changes? To the extent this is an issue (and its not one at all), its so minor as to not worry anyone.
One state, one vote. Number of FB playing schools has nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Give me an example of an NCAA rule that is intended for advanced players and not HS.
Most of the BBW rules, tackle box for QB, crack back block rule, "targeting", come to mind fairly fast.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 01, 2014, 08:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by KWH View Post
I am sure glad you provided us with clarification and guidance?
My point was, unlike the 49 NFHS member states, each of which gets an equal opportunity to propose and vote on rules changes, each and every year, Texas and Massachusetts get no say, absolutely no input, and no vote on NCAA rules changes. Yes, TASO makes minor changes to NCAA rules for High school games, but nothing major...
Then explain to me what either of those states' scholastic athletic ass'ns would gain by having any such influence.

If my explanation wasn't good enough, I'll try again. Suppose there were 2 people who wanted to play checkers with each other in Texas, and 2 other people who wanted to play checkers with each other in Mass. By coincidence, each of those pairs of players agrees to play one of the many versions of that game rather than another -- i.e. the checker players in Texas wind up playing by the same rules as the checker players in Mass. The checkers players in Texas are never going to play against the checkers players in Mass. What good would it do for the checkers players in either state to have any influence on the choice of rules by the checkers players in the other state? What good would it do for the checkers players in either state to have any influence on the rules of other checkers players, in state or otherwise, that they're never going to play checkers with?
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 01, 2014, 08:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Aggie View Post
Games with 3 officials are by and large jr. high games where the blocking isn't very complex. As far as 5 in most varsity games, I'd have to ask: specifically what blocking stuff are you referring to, and how does the addition of deep flanks help? The kicking game at the varsity level is the biggest issue with 5 or fewer officials and I don't see how Fed rules would make this any easier.
It's neither the blocking nor the kicking that calls for more officials. The more forward passing you have, the more officials you need.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NFHS survey questionnaire 26 Year Gap Basketball 34 Tue Feb 21, 2012 02:38pm
NFHS Survey up grantsrc Football 81 Thu Dec 04, 2008 01:29pm
NFHS Survey Grail Basketball 29 Tue Feb 12, 2008 09:05pm
NFHS Survey tjones1 Basketball 25 Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:32am
NFHS Survey Grail Basketball 13 Fri Feb 24, 2006 01:51pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1