Basic Spot for a Loose Ball Play.

[maven]

I'm astonished that an association discussion of such a play would last more than 10 seconds. ABO is a fundamental concept in NFHS penalty enforcement, and this play is not complex.

Maybe somebody saw holding enforced from the previous spot in an NCAA game and is assuming it would be that way in NFHS too. Bad, lazy assumption.

[whitehat]

For many years this is one of those I wish the NF would change to match the college rule. Seems very unfair the way it is currently written, but we don't write them we just enforce them.

[bigjohn]

[I'm astonished that an association discussion of such a play would last more than 10 seconds. ABO is a fundamental concept in NFHS penalty enforcement, and this play is not complex.

Maybe somebody saw holding enforced from the previous spot in an NCAA game and is assuming it would be that way in NFHS too. Bad, lazy assumption.

Well I am not astonished one bit!!

But you know I see this from a different point of view!

[Rich]

As a fairly longtime white hat who has his nose in two rule books virtually year-round, it's just evidence that football is officiated by a fair number of people who thinks learning the rules is someone else's job.

I don't know of any other sport where people think that way to the same degree.

[HLin NC]

Many have said the penalty is enforced from the 30,

And the "many" are correct.

As for the dual level officials, I have found it is not uncommon to have to correct their enforcements from time to time.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by whitehat

For many years this is one of those I wish the NF would change to match the college rule. Seems very unfair the way it is currently written, but we don't write them we just enforce them.

This is one of the many cases where Fed has kept a provision long after NCAA & NFL changed it (in the 1970s for NFL, I think same decade though later in NCAA). The reason it looks unfair is because of the treatment of incomplete forward passes where no penalty applies. If you thought about it in terms of a completed forward pass, however, it wouldn't look as unfair if you compared a basic spot well beyond the spot of the foul thus produced vs. one produced by a running play. It also doesn't look unfair if you thought the foul prevented the would-be passer from being tackled for a loss, or possibly even having the ball stolen.

One could easily argue that in the case of an incomplete forward pass, there should be no penalty at all for illegal use of hands, if you similarly don't consider the possibility of a tackle for a loss.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by whitehat

For many years this is one of those I wish the NF would change to match the college rule. Seems very unfair the way it is currently written, but we don't write them we just enforce them.

Allow me to suggest a reason why NFHS may has continued their perspective. Of course this in ony my personal speculation. Keep in mind, that a basic purpose of establishing penalties is to discourage certain behaviors.

A-1 drops back to pass, and is rushed. To avoid the defensive charge, A-1 retreats well beyond 10 yards behind the previous spot, and is in danger of being tackled for a significant loss. A-2 realizing the perdicament, and the danger of a significant loss of yardage decides to protect A-1 by whatever means necessary, which includes clearly holding B-1, now more than 20 yards behind the previous spot.

A-2, being a student of the game, considers; under the NCAA rules code, I might as well hold on to B-1 because if that's undetected I may save us from a significant loss of yardage, if A-1 gets a pass off and even if I'm caught holding, the damage will be limited to 10 yards behind the previous spot (which will actually regain back more than half of the actual yardage we'd otherwise lose).

If we're playing under NFHS rules, I better kick in up a full gear and make a proper block, or getting caught holding will take us all the way back 10 yards from the actual scene of my crime.

Or maybe it's just that more NFHS Rule Makers were defensive linemen in their younger days.