Onside Kick Question

[Spence]

UK/Miss St game tonight.

UK pooches it. UK player catches the ball before it hits the ground.

Is there any requirement the ball touch the ground before the kicking team can catch it?

[Spence]

One more: Same play. Kicking team member K2 next to the kicker realizes he's going to be offsides, slows down, kicker kicks , K2 foot doesn't touch down until after the kicker kicks the ball. His foot was in the air past the line. Is that offsides or is it based on his foot touching the ground in relation to the ball being kicked?

[jTheUmp]

Disclaimer: I have not seen the play in question.

First Question:
If no Team B (receiving team) player is in a position to catch the kick, Team A can catch it at the cost of an illegal touching violation.

See AR 6-4-1-I and 6-4-1-V (this AR is about a scrimmage kick, but the same rule applies).

It's up to the official's judgement if a Team B player is in position to catch the kick .

Second question:
By strict reading of the rule, Team A is offside if any part of a Team A player's body (other than that of the kicker and/or holder) is beyond the line when the ball is kicked.

In practice, offsides by Team A on a free kick won't be flagged unless the Team A player has a foot down offside OR an onside-kick is attempted and Team A's player breaks the plane of the free-kick line.

It's up to the official's judgement if this is an onside-kick attempt or not.

[Spence]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Disclaimer: I have not seen the play in question.

First Question:
If no Team B (receiving team) player is in a position to catch the kick, Team A can catch it at the cost of an illegal touching violation.

See AR 6-4-1-I and 6-4-1-V (this AR is about a scrimmage kick, but the same rule applies).

It's up to the official's judgement if a Team B player is in position to catch the kick .

Second question:
By strict reading of the rule, Team A is offside if any part of a Team A player's body (other than that of the kicker and/or holder) is beyond the line when the ball is kicked.

In practice, offsides by Team A on a free kick won't be flagged unless the Team A player has a foot down offside OR an onside-kick is attempted and Team A's player breaks the plane of the free-kick line.

It's up to the official's judgement if this is an onside-kick attempt or not.

On the offsides sounds like it was right since it was during an onsides.

Back to #1. No receiving team member in the area. Your wording makes it sound like an "illegal touch" would have been called. Am I misunderstanding?

[SamG]

I saw the play in question. My understanding (I'm not an official, just a fan), there isn't a requirement for the ball to touch the ground before the K team touches it, but by hitting the ground, the ball doesn't go far and pops into the air.

As far as the offsides, watching the replay, I think the officials called the wrong number. There was another player that was 2-3 players down from the called offender that was further off IMO.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Spence

Back to #1. No receiving team member in the area. Your wording makes it sound like an "illegal touch" would have been called. Am I misunderstanding?

Yes, it would have been called, and probably signaled by the covering official (look for the official to touch his fingers to his shoulders). But, illegal touching doesn't get flagged. It's rarely announced by the WH unless something else happens during the play and the illegal touching requires special enforcement rules to be applied.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by Altor

Yes, it would have been called, and probably signaled by the covering official (look for the official to touch his fingers to his shoulders). But, illegal touching doesn't get flagged. It's rarely announced by the WH unless something else happens during the play and the illegal touching requires special enforcement rules to be applied.

It's only illegal touching if the ball is still in the neutral zone. Beyond that they can legally touch it.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by SamG

I saw the play in question. My understanding (I'm not an official, just a fan), there isn't a requirement for the ball to touch the ground before the K team touches it, but by hitting the ground, the ball doesn't go far and pops into the air.

As far as the offsides, watching the replay, I think the officials called the wrong number. There was another player that was 2-3 players down from the called offender that was further off IMO.

The rules state that the ball has to move 10 yards down field AND touch the ground, in either order.

By kicking the ball into the ground on the typical onsides kick, the kicking team satisfies the touching-the-ground requirement and gets the added bonus of making the ball bounce to a height where it won't be able to be fielded by the receiving team until it crosses ten yards... in theory.

In practice, it takes a lot of practice to execute an onsides kick successfully, and a lot of things can go wrong. Unless you're a team that only onsides kicks, you'll likely only do it a couple times a season and fail both.

Honestly, I wish the rules could be tweaked a little so that the success rate would be higher. They're exciting plays, if the payoff were better, they would probably be attempted more often.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by jchamp

The rules state that the ball has to move 10 yards down field AND touch the ground, in either order.

By kicking the ball into the ground on the typical onsides kick, the kicking team satisfies the touching-the-ground requirement and gets the added bonus of making the ball bounce to a height where it won't be able to be fielded by the receiving team until it crosses ten yards... in theory.

In practice, it takes a lot of practice to execute an onsides kick successfully, and a lot of things can go wrong. Unless you're a team that only onsides kicks, you'll likely only do it a couple times a season and fail both.

Honestly, I wish the rules could be tweaked a little so that the success rate would be higher. They're exciting plays, if the payoff were better, they would probably be attempted more often.

Ok.

Doesn't the ball touching the ground also eliminate a possible fair catch signal?

[maven]

Originally Posted by SamG

Ok.

Doesn't the ball touching the ground also eliminate a possible fair catch signal?

You mean eliminate the possibility of a legal fair catch signal.

NFHS - Yes.

NCAA - No, a new rule this year just for onside kicks allows receivers to fair catch a onside kick after it has touched the ground once and bounced up into the air.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by jchamp

The rules state that the ball has to move 10 yards down field AND touch the ground, in either order.

Not in NCAA, which is what the OP is based upon. Touching a kick that has not touched the ground is legal as long as it has crossed Team B's restraining line when touched.

AR 2-12-5-I

[Rich]

Originally Posted by maven

You mean eliminate the possibility of a legal fair catch signal.

NFHS - Yes.

NCAA - No, a new rule this year just for onside kicks allows receivers to fair catch a onside kick after it has touched the ground once and bounced up into the air.

The rule was new last year, actually.

A lot of the information in this thread is good for NFHS games, but don't apply to NCAA games -- such as -- a player in an NCAA game can legally signal for a fair catch after one bounce.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by Rich

The rule was new last year, actually.

A lot of the information in this thread is good for NFHS games, but don't apply to NCAA games -- such as -- a player in an NCAA game can legally signal for a fair catch after one bounce.

Is that only for free kicks? Or scrimmage kicks as well?

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

The rule was new last year, actually.

Are you sure, Rich? My 2013-14 book has 6-4-1-f in blue, indicating that it is new this year.

"During a free kick a player of the receiving team in position to receive the ball has the same kick-catch and fair-catch protection whether the ball is kicked directly off the tee or is immediately driven to the ground, strikes the ground once and goes into the air in the manner of the ball kicked directly off the tee."

[jTheUmp]

maven,
That rule was changed in the 2012 season. It shows up as "new" in the 2013 rulebook because the NCAA didn't publish a new rulebook in 2012, despite the rule change.