"Sleeper" Play

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

standing up and looking at the sideline is the very definition of an action that would make the defense think a snap is not imminent.

Then the defense needs to pay better attention. When coaching defensive linemen, I'd would tell them that any time the center's hand is on the ball the snap is imminent.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would like a ruling from my state association to go with a penalty here. Otherwise the defense should be aware that they can snap the ball in this situation. If the QB moved to the sideline then I would agree. But I am not convinced without some guidance from the state to say for sure. And I see your point as well as others, but I think that this is not clearly a foul.

Peace

I agree with you. I don't see how this is illegal. Is it kind of bush league? Yes, but I don't see where you draw the line.

[PAUmpire]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Then the defense needs to pay better attention. When coaching defensive linemen, I'd would tell them that any time the center's hand is on the ball the snap is imminent.



I agree with you. I don't see how this is illegal. Is it kind of bush league? Yes, but I don't see where you draw the line.

I concur, The D line should have stayed focused on the snappers hands. The fact that he was still down should have tipped them off. Also I wish we had some sound, so we can see if there were words said that made this more unfair. "the ball is deflated" rule in the casebook. The actions alone i think dont really make this illegal in my judgement. I concur that it is bush-league though.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Then the defense needs to pay better attention. When coaching defensive linemen, I'd would tell them that any time the center's hand is on the ball the snap is imminent.

What you might coach is irrelevant. The rule quite plainly says that you can't do this. And this (or very similar plays) is what we see in videos during clinics to explain this rule.

[Adam]

Everyone standing up and staring at the sideline is practically screaming that there is no snap imminent. Just because the snapper keeps his head down, that means nothing. Isn't he prevented by rule from lifting his hand once he places it on the ball? The defense would know that, too.

I'd kill it.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What you might coach is irrelevant. The rule quite plainly says that you can't do this. And this (or very similar plays) is what we see in videos during clinics to explain this rule.

I'm not so sure it's that clear cut....the comment posted above says if the offense leads the defense to believe there's a problem AND a snap is imminent. If they just look at the sideline for the play, in what way have they led the defense to believe there's a problem? The "this ball is flat" bush league play certainly meets that condition, but I don't see that in this case. This one falls into the "say we're spiking it and run a play (NOT a fake kneel or spike but just saying it pre-snap)" a la the Lions a couple weeks ago, IMO.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scrounge

the comment posted above says if the offense leads the defense to believe there's a problem AND a snap is imminent.

Reading is fundamental... the rule says the EXACT opposite.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Reading is fundamental... the rule says the EXACT opposite.

Thanks, but I can read pretty well. You can disagree, fine, but no need to be an ass about it.

[maven]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Thanks, but I can read pretty well. You can disagree, fine, but no need to be an ass about it.

scrounge, you omitted a crucial "not" in your summary of the rule: "...a snap is NOT imminent..."

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by maven

scrounge, you omitted a crucial "not" in your summary of the rule: "...a snap is NOT imminent..."

No, I'm aware of that, but that's not the only condition in the case example. The case talks about when a team acts like there's a problem (a missing tee in the case book example) AND a snap isn't imminent. If they don't try to deceive by saying there's an administrative issue or some non-playing problem (the ball is flat, the tee is missing, etc), then I don't think it's as clear cut that this is illegal. If they're in formation, don't say or do anything outside of normal football acts except look over at the sideline, then I think a very reasonable case can be made that this is not an unfair act.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Thanks, but I can read pretty well. You can disagree, fine, but no need to be an ass about it.

It was not my intent to be an "ass" (and no need to call me one).

It's not a matter of disagreement - Your statement was a complete reversal of the actual rule we're talking about. If it was a typo as one suggested ... fine... but missing a "not" as a typo makes a pretty big difference, don't you think? Calling someone out for saying the opposite of the truth is not being an "ass".

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It was not my intent to be an "ass" (and no need to call me one).

It's not a matter of disagreement - Your statement was a complete reversal of the actual rule we're talking about. If it was a typo as one suggested ... fine... but missing a "not" as a typo makes a pretty big difference, don't you think? Calling someone out for saying the opposite of the truth is not being an "ass".

Saying someone can't read is...well, that's exactly how it came across. And yes, it was a typo to omit "not" but I stand by my larger disagreement that this is a clear-cut violation of the rules. I thought the overall context of my post was clear, but if not, shame on me for leaving it out. Again, though, a snap not being imminent is one condition in the case example...but not the only one. In the absence of something else, I think this play is somewhat bush but legal.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Reading is fundamental... the rule says the EXACT opposite.

I'm assuming it was a typo rather than a reading issue.

[PAUmpire]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I'm not so sure it's that clear cut....the comment posted above says if the offense leads the defense to believe there's a problem AND a snap is imminent. If they just look at the sideline for the play, in what way have they led the defense to believe there's a problem? The "this ball is flat" bush league play certainly meets that condition, but I don't see that in this case. This one falls into the "say we're spiking it and run a play (NOT a fake kneel or spike but just saying it pre-snap)" a la the Lions a couple weeks ago, IMO.

I agree without sound, I cant definitely say they was unfair act however, as being discussed. If the D had jumped when they all rose up, I would have flagged false start. But just because the Lineman are up doesn't mean the ball cant be snapped.