Covered TE

[mcmcleod]

I know you guys have covered this topic many years ago in this forum but would someone please remind the world that a covered TE (covered by WR) can shift to the other side of the formation and then place his hands in the dirt, as long as he doesn't do so to simulate a snap or and is in a two point stance prior to shifting. I need to send this to our Officials in our conference because it was flagged as a false start and cost us our game Friday night. I explained prior to the game what we would do, everyone seemed fine, then the flags flew. Please help me!!!!!

[NDRef]

If the officials felt the player was simulating a snap(false start)...he is simulating a snap! Period.

[HLin NC]

Did the covered TE put his hand on or near the ground (below his knees) prior to his shift? Did his movement simulate action?

I assume you are going to tell us he isn't supposed to on this play. Do you know how many times a coach tells us "but it was a screen pass" when the lineman and the pass both go beyond the LOS? Or how "he didn't mean to hold him". Just because a play is drawn up a certain way or a player is coached to do it, doesn't mean that the desired result is achieved.

Did you ask or have asked the covering official why he flagged it? You could have conferred with the referee for a coach-referee conference if you felt the rule had been misapplied. That is way more productive than the ire you're going to draw for forwarding a bunch of message board posts from officials that I assume are going to tell you that they weren't there, didn't see it, and aren't going to render an opinion.

If you have a video clip of the play, forward it to their supervisor. That is a way more productive method. It doesn't get your one call that "cost the game" back but if accurate, will be much more helpful and productive.

[bigjohn]

Post a video and then these guys can tell what it was.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

I need to send this to our Officials in our conference because it was flagged as a false start and cost us our game Friday night.

Congratulations on your team playing a perfect game Friday night.

No missed blocking assignments, no missed tackles, no dropped passes, every route run correctly.......................

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

II explained prior to the game what we would do, everyone seemed fine, then the flags flew. Please help me!!!!!

It must have not been fine, because it was flagged.

And just like was said earlier, asking us is not going to do much of anything. You had officials at your game you could have asked. Instead you probably wanted to argue with them and there you go, no answer.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

I know you guys have covered this topic many years ago in this forum but would someone please remind the world that a covered TE (covered by WR) can shift to the other side of the formation and then place his hands in the dirt, as long as he doesn't do so to simulate a snap or and is in a two point stance prior to shifting.

If writing so here is reminding the world, yes.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

I know you guys have covered this topic many years ago in this forum but would someone please remind the world that a covered TE (covered by WR) can shift to the other side of the formation and then place his hands in the dirt, as long as he doesn't do so to simulate a snap or and is in a two point stance prior to shifting.

Yes, a covered TE can do exactly as you describe.

everyone seemed fine, then the flags flew. Please help me!!!!!

Therefore, the play that happened must not have been exactly as you described... SOMETHING (3 pt or simulated 3 pt stance; simulated snap - for example) happened to get this flagged. (And if "flags flew" meaning more than one official flagged it, I suspect they each flagged it for the same reason).

[mcmcleod]

I posted on here to get an answer. I had already sent our clips through HUDL to our Supervisor of Officials. We were in our last drive down by two and the penalty put us in a difficult position. The play was a power pass not a screen and I talked with our supervisor today and there shouldn't have been a foul on the play. I realize there are alot of officials on this board which is why I posted. I want to make sure I am teaching our players the right way. Make sure before you respond to take a deep breath, and realize I am looking for answers not daggers. Everyone makes mistakes, it certainly contributed to us failing to win because the penalty kept us out of FG range and time ran out on the subsequent play. I know we could have missed the kick or fumbled the snap, anything can happen but we didin't get that chance due to the penalty. I never said we played a perfect game. I tell our players after every win and loss that typically 5 critical plays make or break each game.

[maven]

Coach, if your question concerns the rule, that's already been answered. Covered TE may shift as long as he doesn't simulate the snap or have his hand down prior to shifting. 7-1-7

If your question concerns whether the call in your game is correct, none of us can answer that very well without seeing the video (and even that might not be decisive). We have no reason to think that the crew missed the call. If you disagree with the crew's judgment about simulating a snap, that is not a reason to think they missed the call.

If your question is crypto-venting, you're probably on the wrong forum.

If none of these is the case, perhaps you could clarify your goal in posting.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

I posted on here to get an answer. ... Make sure before you respond to take a deep breath, and realize I am looking for answers not daggers. Everyone makes mistakes...

MC... I believe you got an answer. The play you described is legal, if it was run as you described. You posted us no video, so we cannot tell you if the play on the field was legal.

Where you rubbed a few the wrong way was the "it cost us the game" quip.

NO Official is going to read that without bristling (self included). You got "daggers" because you started with daggers. One decision went in a way you disliked. Weigh that with the 60-some times your runner got tackled, the 3-6 times you failed to tackle the other team's players, or the 50-60 times the other team gained enough yards to help themselves toward a score. Your team did not succeed over 100 times. The referees (again, assuming what you say happened on the field is the same as what the referees saw happen on the field) did not succeed once.

So what, cost you the game? The ONE ... or the accumulation of the HUNDRED?

You'll find better responses in the future if you don't begin conversation with "the refs cost us the game" on a ref's site.

[HLin NC]

You've got Hudl, you've got the ability to link us a video. You want allies, show us the evidence. Not sure if you realize this but coaches have been known to overreact, misunderstand, flat out lie. Nobody that is an official here is going to render an opinion to something we don't see and get very little description.

This is The Official Forum, not the Coaches P!$$ & Moan Forum. Scuttle on over to Coach Huey if you are looking for sympathy.

[Reffing Rev.]

When coaches ask me about plays like this I usually say something like...if when it happens it appears to be either simulating a snap or action intended to cause B to encroach then it is a false start, but I can't say without seeing it for sure whether it is legal or not.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by mcmcleod

I explained prior to the game what we would do, everyone seemed fine, then the flags flew. Please help me!!!!!

Had a coach several years ago tell us the same thing in the pregame meeting: "All my linemen will be in a 2-pt stance, and they'll all shift. We'll do it slowly enough so that it doesn't simulate the snap."

Guess what? When they tried the shift during the game, it looked like a full-speed sweep.

That's why it's impossible for us to give you any meaningful information without video.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

Had a coach several years ago tell us the same thing in the pregame meeting: "All my linemen will be in a 2-pt stance, and they'll all shift. We'll do it slowly enough so that it doesn't simulate the snap."

Guess what? When they tried the shift during the game, it looked like a full-speed sweep.

That's why it's impossible for us to give you any meaningful information without video.

Extremely true. I've run out of extremities to count the number of times a coach described his super-nifty trick play that no one had ever thought of in pre-game, to make sure we're aware of it and that it's legal... only to find that when the rubber met the road the execution of it was not exactly like the description - and ended up getting flagged.

"C'Mon ref, we went over that in pregame."
"Coach ... that mess looked NOTHING like what you described in pregame."