Facemask on offense philosophy

[OKREF]

I called this twice in a game last year, once on each team. I've always wondered why coaches, players etc... think the offense should get a break on this when it is a PF.

[BktBallRef]

Never see hands above the shoulders called on OL or DL players.

[sir_eldren]

BktBallRef: who said anything about a lineman? The flag was on a blocker downfield.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Never see hands above the shoulders called on OL or DL players.

You haven't watched my crew work -- we've had 3 of those fouls in 5 weeks, 2 in varsity games. If the hands come off right away, fine...

[sir_eldren]

A bit of an update on this. Apparently, my association really prefers the NCAA/NFL rule on face mask calls.

As was explained to me by our most experienced, and gruff, official, "we" don't call face mask on the offense unless it's worth 15 yards. Otherwise it should be illegal use of hands for 10 yards. The theory is that there is no reason, whatsoever, for a player's hands to be around anybody's face or helmet. On teh defensive side of the ball, the same applies, unless it's a tackler, in which case you may be able to call the 5-yarder.

You'd think, after 11 years of officiating football, that a philosophy like this would have been stated or written down somewhere or explained to me some time in the past. *shrug* Oh well. When I stop learning, I'll stop getting better.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by sir_eldren

A bit of an update on this. Apparently, my association really prefers the NCAA/NFL rule on face mask calls.

As was explained to me by our most experienced, and gruff, official, "we" don't call face mask on the offense unless it's worth 15 yards. Otherwise it should be illegal use of hands for 10 yards. The theory is that there is no reason, whatsoever, for a player's hands to be around anybody's face or helmet. On teh defensive side of the ball, the same applies, unless it's a tackler, in which case you may be able to call the 5-yarder.

You'd think, after 11 years of officiating football, that a philosophy like this would have been stated or written down somewhere or explained to me some time in the past. *shrug* Oh well. When I stop learning, I'll stop getting better.

It's the product of a Fed rule on illegal use of hands that overlaps in most cases with the incidental face mask situations. Conceivably if the blocker's palms are toward the blocker, and initial contact is made below the neck, the hand could slide up to the mask without its being illegal use of hands, but how often is that going to happen? If you have a single act that's 2 fouls, then the non-offending side should get the benefit of the greater penalty.

[Rich]

This is one place where the college rule is actually more severe than the HS rule -- hands to the face in the NCAA book is actually a 15-yard penalty. We had one on Saturday. I know the NFHS considers it an illegal blocking technique, hence the 10.

If the HTF is really aggressive and doesn't come off the face at all, our HS crew has agreed that we'll bump that up to a PF for UNR. So far this year, we've had 3 HTF and we went 10 for all three of them.

And I agree and disagree with the association. In theory, it's impossible to get a 5 yard facemask considering the HTF rule (with the exception being if the runner is involved). And yet...if hands end up on the face and come right off, we usually don't flag that at all (unless they don't come off or unless they strike the opponent in the face). So there probably is some wiggle room.

I think the best solution is to eliminate the 5-yard facemask like at the other levels of the game. Many of those 5-yard FM fouls should be 15-yard fouls and the rest shouldn't be fouls at all.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Rich

This is one place where the college rule is actually more severe than the HS rule -- hands to the face in the NCAA book is actually a 15-yard penalty. We had one on Saturday. I know the NFHS considers it an illegal blocking technique, hence the 10.

If the HTF is really aggressive and doesn't come off the face at all, our HS crew has agreed that we'll bump that up to a PF for UNR. So far this year, we've had 3 HTF and we went 10 for all three of them.

And I agree and disagree with the association. In theory, it's impossible to get a 5 yard facemask considering the HTF rule (with the exception being if the runner is involved). And yet...if hands end up on the face and come right off, we usually don't flag that at all (unless they don't come off or unless they strike the opponent in the face). So there probably is some wiggle room.

I think the best solution is to eliminate the 5-yard facemask like at the other levels of the game. Many of those 5-yard FM fouls should be 15-yard fouls and the rest shouldn't be fouls at all.

1. The NFL rule is both more and less severe: 10 yards for foul by offense; 5 yards, auto 1st down for foul by defense.

2. I like the philosophy of being open to upgrading HTF to a PF. It often deserves more than a mere blocking foul. Similar in that respect to an IBB: away from the back, player gets hit in the back, we're generally going PF for UNR.

3. I also like the philosophy of avoiding most 5-yard FM fouls. Most often it's either a safety issue (PF) or it's nothing.