End of Wisconsin - Arizona State game

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Delay of game.

Just so you know, it has to be deliberate action to make that call, not confusion. And I bet you have never seen a Delay of Game penalty on a defensive team near the end of the game. You cannot just call this when there is confusion of the ball being loose.

Also a delay of game call would have been a penalty which included yardage and the clock would have started on the snap. Very severe and would have caused ASU fans going nuts, which is something you seem to not want to consider as well. Wisconsin does not have the right to win any game anymore then the other team.

And the Wisconsin QB never had a since of urgency until time was about to run out. He assumed everyone knew what he was doing or wanted. You know what they say when you assume?

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just so you know, it has to be deliberate action to make that call, not confusion.

Where the umpire failed, in my opinion, was when R was signalling him that the play was over and the QB was down - and the umpire, knowing the game situation, needed to come up, tell the player to get off the ball, and then either spot the ball or flag the kid for staying on the ball. Instead, he was entertaining a conversation with another defensive lineman.

You're absolutely right that he could not call DOG given what actually happened. But it was imperative on him to get up there and tell the other guy to get off the ball. If the kid then gets off the ball, he needs to spot it and get out of the way. If he doesn't after being instructed to do so - we have DOG (it then becomes deliberate, and not confusion).

He then further compounds his error by telling the snapper to stay off the ball, with no apparent reason for doing so since there was no substitution.

[OKREF]

This situation never occurs if not for the action of the Wisconsin QB. I have watched the clip about 10 times and I still haven't seen his knee touch the ground, he just lays the ball on the ground, which leads to the ASU player thinking it is a fumble. He should have clearly taken a knee. It really looks like a fumble to me. The umpire is waiting over the ball for the Referee to mark the ball ready for play. Unfortunate ending to a game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This situation never occurs if not for the action of the Wisconsin QB. I have watched the clip about 10 times and I still haven't seen his knee touch the ground, he just lays the ball on the ground, which leads to the ASU player thinking it is a fumble. He should have clearly taken a knee. It really looks like a fumble to me. The umpire is waiting over the ball for the Referee to mark the ball ready for play. Unfortunate ending to a game.

There is a picture in this thread that shows a knee touched the ground. And simulating taking a knee also kills the play. But putting the ball on the ground when it was unclear if he went down caused the confusion. If he holds onto the ball and hands it to the umpire, none of this is at issue IMO.

Peace

[qcumpire]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a picture in this thread that shows a knee touched the ground. And simulating taking a knee also kills the play. But putting the ball on the ground when it was unclear if he went down caused the confusion. If he holds onto the ball and hands it to the umpire, none of this is at issue IMO.

Peace

I agree.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a picture in this thread that shows a knee touched the ground. And simulating taking a knee also kills the play. But putting the ball on the ground when it was unclear if he went down caused the confusion. If he holds onto the ball and hands it to the umpire, none of this is at issue IMO.

If he didn't kneel or simulate kneeling, why is that any less confusing? "Look out, he's passing -- to the umpire!" The ball is either recognized as dead or not. If it's not, it doesn't matter how he gets rid of it. Most balls are not dead on touching an official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If he didn't kneel or simulate kneeling, why is that any less confusing? "Look out, he's passing -- to the umpire!" The ball is either recognized as dead or not. If it's not, it doesn't matter how he gets rid of it. Most balls are not dead on touching an official.

What players do you know when the ball is on the ground they do not try to cover it? That happens a lot even when there has not been a fumble ruled on a play. It happens when it is the first play of the game if on a close catch and the ball is on the ground, players go after the ball not waiting for an official to announce it is a fumble. Now you have put a ball on the ground when you need ever second. And if he handed the official the football, then it would be clear to the officials if the ASU players tried to interfere with the ball. What the QB did helped cause confusion and delay to their cause.

And this is why the QB said what he did to the media (APG quote). He knows that he did not help the situation. If he thinks the other team is going to play nice so that they can run a play, he obviously learned that is not the case.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What players do you know when the ball is on the ground they do not try to cover it? That happens a lot even when there has not been a fumble ruled on a play. It happens when it is the first play of the game if on a close catch and the ball is on the ground, players go after the ball not waiting for an official to announce it is a fumble.

It's been reported upthread that a whistle sounded. This is very interesting: an official saying players should play past the whistle.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This situation never occurs if not for the action of the Wisconsin QB. I have watched the clip about 10 times and I still haven't seen his knee touch the ground, he just lays the ball on the ground, which leads to the ASU player thinking it is a fumble. He should have clearly taken a knee. It really looks like a fumble to me. The umpire is waiting over the ball for the Referee to mark the ball ready for play. Unfortunate ending to a game.

There is no ready for play call by the R in college in this situation. The play clock starts when the previous play ends. It is ready for play when the U spots is backs out. He was obviously waiting for something but it definitely wasn't waiting for a RFP signal from the R.

[ddn]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This situation never occurs if not for the action of the Wisconsin QB. I have watched the clip about 10 times and I still haven't seen his knee touch the ground, he just lays the ball on the ground, which leads to the ASU player thinking it is a fumble. He should have clearly taken a knee. It really looks like a fumble to me. The umpire is waiting over the ball for the Referee to mark the ball ready for play. Unfortunate ending to a game.

The video I watched (the one from page 1), you can clearly hear a whistle being blown when he QB puts the ball down. Can't tell who blew it, nor can you see anyone with their hand up, but it is a very clear, loud whistle so someone had them down.

[APG]

Pac-12 Conference reprimands officials from Arizona State-Wisconsin game - ESPN

The Pac-12 on Monday reprimanded officials who worked Saturday's game between Arizona State and Wisconsin for their handling of the bizarre finish.

A statement released by the conference said commissioner Larry Scott was taking "additional sanctions against officials" for their failure to "properly administer the end of game situation and act with appropriate urgency on the game's final play."

[APG]

Arizona State, Wisconsin review bizarre ending

Quote from the Wisconsin QB

Stave told reporters that he is certain he downed the football, but he admitted one mistake: "I've just got to make sure I'm not spotting (the ball) myself," he said. "I've got to hang onto the ball so only me and the ref are touching it."

Graham said he spent the final seconds thinking about how the Sun Devils would try and block the winning field goal. On Sunday, he said they would use Wisconsin's misfortune as a teachable moment.

"That's one of the reasons we always hand the ball to the official, because you hand that ball to that umpire he's going to put it down and spot it,'' Graham said, "so there are a lot of teaching opportunities there."