Laying on a defender

[bigjohn]

Holding

Play: Snapper A50 snaps the ball and charges forward and is engaged by nose guard B70.
This engagement results in A50 belly-flopping onto the field, with B70 then laying on top of
A50 with his arms extended, pinning A50 to the ground.

Ruling: Rule 9-2-3c covers a defensive player laying on top of an offensive player. The
phrase "...restrain an opponent...." is important. If a player is restrained by an opponent
laying on top of him and is "pinned to the ground," then you have a foul for illegal holding.
Should the reverse occur with the offensive player pinning the defensive player to the
ground, that’s also illegal holding, covered under Rule 9-2-1c

Read more: Oops, there was an error! | CoachHuey.com


this was posted on Huey, when is laying on a defender not holding? does it matter where the pinner's arms are?

[bisonlj]

Typically the play is well away from the players by the time this happens. It's possible laying on a player could result in a hold (and definitely should if this is still at the point of attack), but I've been taught to not flag this situation most of the time. It's something to watch though because it could turn into persoanl foul activity.

[HLin NC]

It's possible laying on a player could result in a hold (and definitely should if this is still at the point of attack),

ie: 1) Runner reverses field back towards where the "laying" is occurring.
2) "Laying" occurs in advance of the runner. (Runner would need to be EXTREMELY sloooooooow.)
??

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Holding

Play: Snapper A50 snaps the ball and charges forward and is engaged by nose guard B70.
This engagement results in A50 belly-flopping onto the field, with B70 then laying on top of
A50 with his arms extended, pinning A50 to the ground.

Ruling: Rule 9-2-3c covers a defensive player laying on top of an offensive player. The
phrase "...restrain an opponent...." is important. If a player is restrained by an opponent
laying on top of him and is "pinned to the ground," then you have a foul for illegal holding.
Should the reverse occur with the offensive player pinning the defensive player to the
ground, that’s also illegal holding, covered under Rule 9-2-1c

Read more: Oops, there was an error! | CoachHuey.com


this was posted on Huey, when is laying on a defender not holding? does it matter where the pinner's arms are?

In Fed, yes. It could also matter what part of the opponent's body was contacted. In the thread at Huey's it was specified as contact on the opponent's back. That means that unless it's under conditions where use of the hands is allowed on the back, it has to be the closed hand technique.

If the blocker is not using hands (in the sense of palms facing or arm(s) extended), it can't be holding. The remaining question was whether the block in the back could be sustained after the ball left the free blocking zone. The provision in this case in Fed isn't clear as to whether it specifies only the initiation of contact, or includes its maintenance.

If the contact is in the front of the opponent at or below the shoulders and at or above the waist, then the hands could be used and the contact made regardless of whether it's in the free blocking zone. Even if the opponent is pinned to the ground by the blocker's weight, it's not holding if the blocker doesn't grasp or encircle the opponent with hand(s) or arm(s). Neither 9-2-1(c) nor 9-2-3(c) forbid all uses of hands to restrain an opponent; they forbid only the use of them to "hook, lock," etc. to restrain an opponent. Pinning an opponent to the ground by hands or arms pressing on top is not among the list of forbidden techniques.