Still Controversial...to the Defender

[cmcramer]

During March Madness, I actually saw a shooter at the three point line fake a defender into the air, way past vertical, and then take one DRIBBLE underneath the defender. Foul called on defender. Happens alot underneath the basket, too, with a good up-fake followed by a power dribble. "Draw" the foul. Good offensive play.

This Official apparently does not agree with some here who insist the defender has a 'right' to a spot on the floor to land. This defender crashed into the shooter only because the shooter dribbled under defender.

This discussion is still controversial in our Morning League...but only to the poor defenders who get caught flying out of vertical at a ball fake.

What if Kevin McHale stopped his up & under move before lifting his pivot foot, and defender crashed down on him? Foul on McHale? I don't think so...


Up and Under Move

[vbzebra]

who enters into whom's vertical plane? I think that should answer your question...

[cmcramer]

I would say that the vertical plane of the offensive player can change during this play. He can dribble or he can pivot...all while the hapless defender is in the air.

[Adam]

You're really using the calls made in favor of Kevin McHale as evidence for your claim?

[cmcramer]

OK, delete Kevin McHale ...

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

I would say that the vertical plane of the offensive player can change during this play. He can dribble or he can pivot...all while the hapless defender is in the air.

yeah, but if the defender truly IS completly cleanly vertical (I know, this rarely happens in this situation), we can't penalize the defender for merely jumping straight up in his own vertical plane. just my thoughts...

[cmcramer]

OP says defender is "way past vertical"

VBZebra - if you get a chance, read the thread I linked to the OP - this situation has been well discussed...

It's just that this play happened again this morning....and the defender was crying about it....as they usually do.

[vbzebra]

Originally Posted by cmcramer

OP says defender is "way past vertical"

VBZebra - if you get a chance, read the thread I linked to the OP - this situation has been well discussed...

It's just that this play happened again this morning....and the defender was crying about it....as they usually do.

will do, thanks! i hear ya on the last part too

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by vbzebra

yeah, but if the defender truly IS completly cleanly vertical (I know, this rarely happens in this situation), we can't penalize the defender for merely jumping straight up in his own vertical plane. just my thoughts...

+1

If the defender leaves his vertical plane, and comes crashing down on someone, it's on him.

[Tio]

I don't think you get this play right unless you referee the defense (as we should be doing). If the defender is moving horizontally into the offensive shooters space, defensive foul is the correct call. If the offensive player initiates the contact then you have a no-call or offense if the contact is severe. Be prepared to take a boatload of heat for getting this play right! Have faith that the film will validate your correct call.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You're really using the calls made in favor of Kevin McHale as evidence for your claim?

Yeah, that's like saying MJ was never called for.....(fill in the blank)
That is why I never tried to jump and block shots. That, and the fact I couldn't really jump all that high!! What happened to teaching good fundamentals??? But that would go on a coaching board