Two Plays From Today

[bob jenkins]

NCAA Rules.

1) Running play ends inbounds. Before the next snap, offense calls TO. After returning from the TO, offense is called for false start before (duh) the ball is snapped. Does the clock start on the ready or on the snap?

2) Ball on A25. Pass complete at A20. Holding by A at A22. Runner downed at A40. Is the penalty enforced from the 25 (LOS) or 22 (spot of the foul)?

Thanks.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAA Rules.

1) Running play ends inbounds. Before the next snap, offense calls TO. After returning from the TO, offense is called for false start before (duh) the ball is snapped. Does the clock start on the ready or on the snap?

2) Ball on A25. Pass complete at A20. Holding by A at A22. Runner downed at A40. Is the penalty enforced from the 25 (LOS) or 22 (spot of the foul)?

Thanks.

1) Snap. It wasn't running when the false start happened.
2) Previous spot (A25)

[bob jenkins]

Thanks. Explanation for #2, please. (I'm not a football official).

[JRutledge]

Fouls by the offense are enforced from the previous spot unless otherwise stated. A holding would apply so it goes back to the previous spot enforced. If the foul happened beyond the previous spot then it would be a spot foul.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Thanks. Explanation for #2, please. (I'm not a football official).

Fouls such as holding will be enforced from the spot of the foul, but will *never* be enforced from behind the previous spot. It's a difference from HS football -- that has strict all-but-one (or 3-and-1) enforcement.

In other words, in college football, we'll never go from 1st and 10 to 1st and 27 -- worst it will ever be is 1st and 20.

[Texas Aggie]

Holding is one of the exceptions to spot of the foul behind the previous spot for team A. However, holding in the end zone is a safety.

[bob jenkins]

Thanks for all the explanations. So, if the penalyt had been some sort of illegal block, it would be enforced from the 22, but because holding is the (only?) exception, it is enforce form the 25 (LOS)? Does it matter that it was a pass play? And, why is it an exception?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Thanks for all the explanations. So, if the penalyt had been some sort of illegal block, it would be enforced from the 22, but because holding is the (only?) exception, it is enforce form the 25 (LOS)? Does it matter that it was a pass play? And, why is it an exception?

No holding is not the only excepiton. I do not have my rulebook right in front of me, but any offensive foul that was not specified with a special enformcement like Intentional Grounding, the foul goes back to the previous spot. So BBW, Chop Blocks, BIB or Clip would all apply to the previous spot if behind the previous spot. Running or passing would not matter.

Peace

[ajmc]

Bob, you've asked a simple question, that requires a long answer. A brief overview:

NFHS Rules define a "Basic Spot" as a point of reference for penalty enforcement, as defined in Rule 10, Section 4. There are several "Basic Spots", that are determined by the action that occurs during the down.

The "Previous Spot" is the Basic Spot for:
a. Foul which occurs simultaneously with the snap or freekick
b. Foul wich occurs during a "loose ball" play. ( defind in 10,3.1, 10.5.5 and 10.5.1b) Most common is a pass play and generally during a legal kick.
c. Foul wich occurs during a down in which a legal kick occurs and an "inadvertent whistle" ends the down prior to possession by either team.The basic spotis the "spot where the kick ends" when Receivers commit a post-scrimmage kick (PSK) foul (2.16.2h). Receiver fouls behind the PSK spot are "Spot" fouls.

The basic spot is the "Spot where the related run ends", for a foull which occurs during a "running play" as defined in 10.3.2.

The basic spot is the "Succeeding Spot":a. for an unsportsmanlike foul.
b. for a "dead-ball" foul
c. for a non-player foul
d. When the foul result is a touchback.

There are additional "Spot" designations for certain specific plays, but these are the more genera spots.l

[JRutledge]

Determining the Enforcement Spot and the Basic Spot

ARTICLE 2.

a. Dead-ball fouls. The enforcement spot for a foul committed when the ball is dead is the succeeding spot.

b. Fouls by the offensive team behind the neutral zone. For the following fouls committed by the offensive team behind the neutral zone, the penalty is enforced at the previous spot: illegal use of hands, holding, illegal block and personal fouls (Exception: If the foul occurs in Team A’s end zone the penalty is a safety.). However, see Rule 6-3-13 for offensive team fouls during scrimmage kick plays.

c. The Three-and-One Principle (Rule 2-33) is as follows:
1. When the team in possession commits a foul behind the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the spot of the foul.
2. When the team in possession commits a foul beyond the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the basic spot.
3. When the team not in possession commits a foul either behind or beyond the basic spot, the penalty is enforced at the basic spot.
d. The following are basic spots for the various categories of plays:
1. Running plays.
(a) Previous spot, when the related run ends behind the neutral zone.
(b) End of the related run, when the related run ends beyond the neutral zone.
(c) End of the related run, on running plays that have no neutral zone. 2 Running plays when the run ends in the end zone after change of team
possession (not on a try).
(a) 20-yard line, when a foul occurs after a change of team possession in
the end zone and the result of the play is a touchback.
(b) Goal line, when a foul occurs after a change of team possession in the field of play and the related run ends in the end zone. (Exception: Rule 8-5-1-Exceptions.)
(c) Goal line, when a foul occurs after a change of team possession in the end zone, the related run ends in the end zone, and the result of the play is not a touchback.
3. Pass plays.
Previous spot, on legal forward pass plays.
4. Kick plays.
(a) Previous spot, on legal kick plays unless the foul is governed by
postscrimmage kick rules.
(b) Postscrimmage kick spot, if the foul is governed by postscrimmage kick rules.

I hope this gives a better picture Bob for you.

Peace

[Texas Aggie]

why is it an exception?

The NCAA has gone back and forth on this. I don't know about what the original rule was, but at some point, holding WAS a previous spot enforcement like it is now, then in the early '90s, I believe, it went to a spot foul enforcement if behind the NZ by Team A. At some point they changed it back. I think the thought was that 10 yards from the spot of a foul that is almost always behind the neutral zone is a bit too much -- Team A might hold 6, 8, even 10 yards behind. Then you have plays like 3rd and 30!

[bisonlj]

A good guideline I've heard is fouls against a player will be enforced from the previous spot and fouls against the ball will be enforced from the spot of the foul (all assuming passing or kicking play from behind the NZ or when the run ends behind the NZ.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The NCAA has gone back and forth on this. I don't know about what the original rule was, but at some point, holding WAS a previous spot enforcement like it is now, then in the early '90s, I believe, it went to a spot foul enforcement if behind the NZ by Team A. At some point they changed it back. I think the thought was that 10 yards from the spot of a foul that is almost always behind the neutral zone is a bit too much -- Team A might hold 6, 8, even 10 yards behind. Then you have plays like 3rd and 30!

The original rule was 3-and-1 enforcement, no exception. And if you think they thought 10 yds. from the spot was a bit too much, consider that for many yrs. it was 15 yds. (both ways). NFL led in the 1970s with the reduction of the offensive penalty to 10 yds. (they already had 5 yds. from the previous spot for the defense) after previously changing to previous spot when the foul occurred behind there on a pass play. It had been 10 yds. a long way back, but NCAA thought they were really accomplishing something in simplif'n when they eliminated 10 yd. penalties so that all distance penalties became 5 or 15.