Forward or Backward

[MD Longhorn]

NFL, NCAA, NFHS rulings on:

1) QB throws the ball from his own 20 yard line. The initial direction of the ball is clearly forward, however, wind pushes it backward so that it lands on the 17 yard line. Incomplete? Or fumble?

2) QB on his own 20 yard line attempts a pitch to his RB. The initial direction of the ball is clearly backward, however, wind pushes it forward so that it lands untouched at the 22 yard line. Incomplete? Or Fumble?

[Welpe]

NCAA:

1) Backward pass.
2) Forward pass.

[APG]

NFL:
1. Forward pass and incomplete
2. Forward pass and incomplete

A pass is forward if the ball initially moves forward out of the passer's hand or if the ball strikes the ground, official, or player, or anything else at a point closer to the opponent's goal line then the point where it was released.

[maven]

NFHS:

1. Forward pass and incomplete.

2. Backward pass, ball remains live.

A pass is forward or backward depending on its initial direction. 2-31-2, 2-31-5

[JugglingReferee]

Now that all codes were answered, I'll give my ruling:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

1) QB throws the ball from his own 20 yard line. The initial direction of the ball is clearly forward, however, wind pushes it backward so that it lands on the 17 yard line. Incomplete? Or fumble?

2) QB on his own 20 yard line attempts a pitch to his RB. The initial direction of the ball is clearly backward, however, wind pushes it forward so that it lands untouched at the 22 yard line. Incomplete? Or Fumble?

CANADIAN RULING:

1) Backwards pass because point of termination of pass (hitting the ground) is behind the point of origin of pass (passer release). Live ball.

2) Incomplete pass because point of termination of pass (hitting the ground) is beyond the point of origin of pass (passer release). Dead ball.

[cdoug]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Now that all codes were answered, I'll give my ruling:




CANADIAN RULING:

1) Backwards pass because point of termination of pass (hitting the ground) is behind the point of origin of pass (passer release). Live ball.

So then would a forward pass by A that's batted by a B lineman toward A's endline be a backward pass if it hits the ground behind where A threw it from? I can only picture this in a quick slant pass or something similar where A is close to the LOS.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by cdoug

So then would a forward pass by A that's batted by a B lineman toward A's endline be a backward pass if it hits the ground behind where A threw it from? I can only picture this in a quick slant pass or something similar where A is close to the LOS.

No... (in any ruleset) the end of the pass in your case is where it was batted, wrt the rule we're talking about.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by cdoug

So then would a forward pass by A that's batted by a B lineman toward A's endline be a backward pass if it hits the ground behind where A threw it from? I can only picture this in a quick slant pass or something similar where A is close to the LOS.

No, because the other way to determine the direction of a pass (forward or backward) is the first of (i) where it is first touched or (ii) where it first hits the ground.

In the OP, the ball was untouched before it hit the ground, so where it first hits the ground is the only element to use to determine the direction of pass.

In your example, the first touching removes the ground as the element to use.

[JasonTX]

I agree with Welpe for his NCAA answer. One thing to point out is that a backwards pass IS NOT a fumble. Both of these play situations involve an intentional act. A fumble is not an intentional act. It's very important to understand the difference between a fumble and a backwards pass because there are other rules that come into play depending on what you actually have. ie, 4th down fumble rules, fumble that goes forward and out of bounds comes back to the spot of the fumble. Neither of those two would apply to a backwards pass.

[Steven Tyler]

1) You might see that happen if the QB throws the ball very high in the air.

2) Only likely to happen if you play in a wind tunnel.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

1) You might see that happen if the QB throws the ball very high in the air.

2) Only likely to happen if you play in a wind tunnel.

Actually these occurrences are more common than you think. It's not so much about balls high in the air, but passes thrown a long way sideways crossing a moderate wind, where without the wind the direction would be almost exactly along a yard line.

[MD Longhorn]

Robert is right, Steven. Envision a long cross-field pass (forward or backward) like you see on a kickoff return trick play or a quick-pass to a WR (or perhaps one of the many laterals in a end-of-game Stanford play.