Forward or Backward Pass?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Quarterback goes under center to receive the snap. WR is on the line of scrimmage. QB takes the snap and a 1 to 2 step drop, and throws a quick pass out to the WR who is still in his position on the line. Quarterback throws what appears to be a forward pass, but by the time it gets to the wideout, a gust if wind is carrying it backwards, and the pass goes off the receivers hands and to the turf. Forward or backward pass?

[BktBallRef]

The intial direction of the pass determines whether it's forward or backwards. This is a forward pass. (2-29-2)

[JugglingReferee]

Interesting to know the South Canadian rule.

Here, a pass' direction is determined by the originating location and by the terminating location.

The originating location is that spot from where the ball is thrown. The terminating location is the Point of First Touching, or where the ball touches the ground, or where it goes out of bounds (in flight).

In Canada, this is a had to be there sitch. Sounds like it would have been a lateral in Canada, and therefore a live ball.

[Bob M.]

REPLY: NCAA rule is similar to the Canadian rule JR mentioned. But in Fed as BBR said, it's all determined by the initial direction of the pass.

[waltjp]

And we know that our wing officials are punching back if it's backward, right Bob?

[mcrowder]

Y'all (Fed folks) have the WING make this decision? Isn't R in the best position to make that call? (And aren't the wings concentrating on a LOT of things other than the location of the QB when he throws it?)

[BulldogMcC]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Y'all (Fed folks) have the WING make this decision? Isn't R in the best position to make that call? (And aren't the wings concentrating on a LOT of things other than the location of the QB when he throws it?)

5 Man mechanics we have been trained that the quick 'pop pass', where the QB takes the snap under center and stands up or takes a step and then makes the quick pass to a wide receiver, it is the wing's call on forward or backward. After the QB takes his second step backwards, ruling on forward/backwards becomes the Referee's to live or die with.

[WyMike]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Y'all (Fed folks) have the WING make this decision? Isn't R in the best position to make that call? (And aren't the wings concentrating on a LOT of things other than the location of the QB when he throws it?)

mc, if we (wings) see it, we are instructed to punch it back to assist the WH. In a case like this, the whole crew should be concentrating on a number of things including R. R could be watching the QB for a roughing the passer call and not be able to see a quick pass to the sidelines and rely on a wing for assistance. Hence the term, crew.

WM

[JDLJ]

Interesting play Sunday in the Rams - Titans game. Rams QB threw a pass that, from field level, was clearly forward. No whistle was blown and finally a Titan player picked it up and ran. The play was challenged but was not overturned. I don't know if it was the angle of the camera that made it look close or a deflection by a Titan tackle. During the replay, the Rams kept their offense in, the Titans kept their defense in and everybody moved back to the previous spot because they were sure it was going to be overturned.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Y'all (Fed folks) have the WING make this decision? Isn't R in the best position to make that call? (And aren't the wings concentrating on a LOT of things other than the location of the QB when he throws it?)

R is on QB's right and behind him, at a 45 degree angle. QB turns and throws to the right sideline.

How can the R possibly know whether the pass has an initial direction of forwards or backwards?

[stevesmith]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

R is on QB's right and behind him, at a 45 degree angle. QB turns and throws to the right sideline.

How can the R possibly know whether the pass has an initial direction of forwards or backwards?

Not to mention the R may be 10-15 yards behind the play while the wings may have the perfect angle down the line! I'll let my wings make this call all night.

[Suudy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WyMike

Originally posted by mcrowder
mc, if we (wings) see it, we are instructed to punch it back to assist the WH. In a case like this, the whole crew should be concentrating on a number of things including R. R could be watching the QB for a roughing the passer call and not be able to see a quick pass to the sidelines and rely on a wing for assistance. Hence the term, crew.

Interestingly, we are told by the state not to punch back on backwards passes.

The rationale is that if it is a forward pass that falls incomplete, blow it dead once it hits the ground. If you aren't sure, don't do anything. That way if the wing punches back, but the R blows it dead incomplete, there are no mixed signals to the sidelines ("Hey! The wing said it was backwards, why did you blow the whistle?!?!"). No signal, and no whistle, should be enough to let the players know the ball is still live.

[stevesmith]

Originally posted by Suudy
Interestingly, we are told by the state not to punch back on backwards passes.

The rationale is that if it is a forward pass that falls incomplete, blow it dead once it hits the ground. If you aren't sure, don't do anything. That way if the wing punches back, but the R blows it dead incomplete, there are no mixed signals to the sidelines ("Hey! The wing said it was backwards, why did you blow the whistle?!?!"). No signal, and no whistle, should be enough to let the players know the ball is still live. [/B]

I agree with this logic. The only time I can think of where this might be an issue is if you have two passes and you need to know that one of them was backwards. But you don't see two passes very often, and when you do, the first pass is usually obviously backward in order to stay as far away from the rushing defense as possible. Given all that, I don't think the "punch" is necessary and can only cause more trouble than good.

[waltjp]

My reply wasn't directed at Bob M. personally, but was a comment on our chapter interpretation meeting. Just last we were instructed that our mechanic will be to have the wing officials punch back on this play. There is/was some discussion as to whether this is an 'optional' mechanic, as stated in the manual.

[Bob M.]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Y'all (Fed folks) have the WING make this decision? Isn't R in the best position to make that call? (And aren't the wings concentrating on a LOT of things other than the location of the QB when he throws it?)

REPLY: The idea is that if the QB comes straight up from the snapper and throws to the sideline, the R would be in a horrible position (approx. 12 yds behind him) to determine if the pass was forward or backward. It's a fairly well accepted practice to have the near-side wing make this call. Personally I think the far-side wing can better see the direction of the pass, but it would be extremely difficult for someone 50 yards away sell this call.