Play for you

[maven]

Originally Posted by legend

Not according to the book. This is told in 2 different ways. #1 would be NFHS Rule 2-27 (PG. 33). A muff is the touching of a loose ball by a player in an unsuccessful attempt to secure possession. Or 2-34; Art. 3 (Pg. 36) A change of possession occurs when the opponent gains player possession during the down.

So according to these definations, the fact that R touches the ball or "muffs" it does not constitute a change of possession.

It has nothing to do with change of possession, so you're looking at the wrong rule. This is a rule specifically to do with scrimmage kicks. The proper rule is 5-1-3, quoted in post #6 above.

[bkdow]

5.1.3 SITUATION C:

Fourth and 10 on K's 45-yard line. K1 punts the ball beyond the neutral zone. R1 muffs the ball back behind the neutral zone where K1 recovers and:

(a) falls on the ball at K's 40-yard line; or
(b) throws a forward pass to K3 which is complete at the 50-yard line and R1 interferes with K3; or
(c) K1 punts the ball and R1 fair catches at his 30-yard line.

RULING: Since R1 touched the kick beyond the neutral zone, it will be first down for the team in possession in (a), (b) and (c). In (a), it is a first down for K at K's 40-yard line. In (b), the pass is legal as there had been no change of team possession. If K accepts the penalty for interference, it will be K's ball at R's 40-yard line. In (c), the second punt is legal as there had been no change of team possession. The ball belongs to R first and 10 on its own 30-yard line. (5-1-2f; 6-2-1; 7-5-1)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bkdow

5.1.3 SITUATION C:

Fourth and 10 on K's 45-yard line. K1 punts the ball beyond the neutral zone. R1 muffs the ball back behind the neutral zone where K1 recovers and:

(a) falls on the ball at K's 40-yard line; or
(b) throws a forward pass to K3 which is complete at the 50-yard line and R1 interferes with K3; or
(c) K1 punts the ball and R1 fair catches at his 30-yard line.

RULING: Since R1 touched the kick beyond the neutral zone, it will be first down for the team in possession in (a), (b) and (c). In (a), it is a first down for K at K's 40-yard line. In (b), the pass is legal as there had been no change of team possession. If K accepts the penalty for interference, it will be K's ball at R's 40-yard line. In (c), the second punt is legal as there had been no change of team possession. The ball belongs to R first and 10 on its own 30-yard line. (5-1-2f; 6-2-1; 7-5-1)

Exactly. (b) and (c) in this case play show you that, obviously, the ball is not dead - as you said in your previous post.

[OKREF]

On the original question. K's ball on the 40.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by OKREF

On the original question. K's ball on the 40.

Disagree. An incomplete legal forward pass is returned to the previous spot.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Disagree. An incomplete legal forward pass is returned to the previous spot.

When R muffs the punt and K recovers the muff, the play is dead and it is K's ball at the spot where they recovered the muff.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by OKREF

When R muffs the punt and K recovers the muff, the play is dead

The play is only dead if a scrimmage kick is recovered by K beyond the LOS. This was recovered behind.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The play is only dead if a scrimmage kick is recovered by K beyond the LOS. This was recovered behind.

You can't advance a muff. Can you advance a muff that is recovered behind the neutral zone? That is the central question. I have to look this up.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by OKREF

You can't advance a muff. Can you advance a muff that is recovered behind the neutral zone? That is the central question. I have to look this up.

This was a typo. Meant to say "You can advance a muff"

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by OKREF

You can't advance a muff. Can you advance a muff that is recovered behind the neutral zone? That is the central question. I have to look this up.

I am wrong. Incomplete pass. R ball 1-10 at the 50, correct?

[maven]

Originally Posted by OKREF

You can't advance a muff. Can you advance a muff that is recovered behind the neutral zone? That is the central question. I have to look this up.

Yes, you can. The correct answer to the OP (and relevant rules) posted here: Play for you

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by OKREF

When R muffs the punt and K recovers the muff, the play is dead and it is K's ball at the spot where they recovered the muff.

So, you didn't even read the case play that is just 3 up from this post?