Progress Stopped, or Play On?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by APG

Paralysis by analysis

Well, they have something that purports to distinguish in definition between forward & backward handing, but when you look at it, it doesn't. But they could've. In Rugby Union the equivalent determination would be made under the offside law according to the players' foot position. In NFL the distinction is purported to be regarding the motion given ball by the "passer", but when the ball is handed by one player to another with no air between, then it gets to be like the infamous tuck rule.

[Canned Heat]

I have him stopped....I think the crew got caught by surprise on this one...even though it was 4th and 4 and looked like offense had nothing to lose essentially by pulling the rabbit out of the hat.

Anyone else happen to catch the 3/4 length sleeve officials shirt on the big guy at about 1:17:30? Looks like half officials shirt and half 80's concert t-shirt all in one.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Well, they have something that purports to distinguish in definition between forward & backward handing, but when you look at it, it doesn't. But they could've. In Rugby Union the equivalent determination would be made under the offside law according to the players' foot position. In NFL the distinction is purported to be regarding the motion given ball by the "passer", but when the ball is handed by one player to another with no air between, then it gets to be like the infamous tuck rule.

I'm not sure, nor care what they do in rugby. And I'm not sure what you're trying to claim is the NFL rule nor how it relates to the tuck rule.

NFL:

Rule 3, Section 13, Article 1

(c) A forward handoff occurs when the ball is handed (regardless of the direction of the movement of the ball) to a player who is in advance of a teammate whose hands he takes or receives it.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by APG

I'm not sure, nor care what they do in rugby. And I'm not sure what you're trying to claim is the NFL rule nor how it relates to the tuck rule.

NFL:

Rule 3, Section 13, Article 1

(c) A forward handoff occurs when the ball is handed (regardless of the direction of the movement of the ball) to a player who is in advance of a teammate whose hands he takes or receives it.

D'oh! It was NCAA that in its interpretations used to reference the ball movement that NFL disclaimed. They also specified, "An exchange is legal during a run after team possession changes and the ball is exchanged by teammates while both players are facing each other at less than a 45-degree angle to a sideline. [cross-reference omitted]" They've eliminated both criteria since then.

My point was that rules writers can be more specific in providing for a determination like this regarding handing the ball off, and I see no reason they shouldn't be. In the current case for NCAA & Fed, all they'd need is a definition of the yard line where a player is positioned. However, for ease of administration, I think they could do better than that.

[Line_Judge]

I have him stopped. Once he was stopped and moved back I am killing this, and selling hard. Too many bad things can happen.

Very good discussion.

We had a similar play where progress was stopped and B players rips almost simultaneously, with 94 yds of clear field in front of him. I killed it and sold it it immediately. B coach was not happy with the call and still remembers (and reminds me) to this day.

As mentioned earlier, this crew got caught off guard- always be ready for the unexpected. It is very easy to get comfortable in the flow of a well played game and in the blink of an eye you have something crazy happen!

[Robert Goodman]

How quick a whistle you give in cases like this can have a profound effect on the way the game is played and coached.

In our club in 2010, the officials gave a slow whistle, so I coached techniques to pry the ball loose from opposing ballcarriers, and they worked. Same officials in 2011, but they were giving a quick whistle, so it didn't pay to coach fumble production techniques. Same officials in 2012; whistle this season's still coming faster than in 2010 -- even got an IW after a ball came loose -- but slightly slower than last year. I haven't taught fumble prod'n techniques this year because we've had other priorities.