What would you do?

jchamp · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 21, 2012, 09:07pm

Call HL and U together.

Tell HL to move the box back to the 18 WITHOUT DELAY.

Tell U to RUN the ball back to the 18 and move back to the 10.

Make the signals that are required, grab your laundry off the field, run back to position, give the ready and wind. If A is disciplined and fast enough to get the snap off and spike it, they can keep it. Don't delay in stopping the clock, and the BJ/LJ should have eyes on the clock to know if there is time left.

It might take me a second or two to stop the clock when the foul occurs during the normal part of the game. It won't be any different here.

WestCoaster · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamp

Call HL and U together.

Tell HL to move the box back to the 18 WITHOUT DELAY.

Tell U to RUN the ball back to the 18 and move back to the 10.

Make the signals that are required, grab your laundry off the field, run back to position, give the ready and wind. If A is disciplined and fast enough to get the snap off and spike it, they can keep it. Don't delay in stopping the clock, and the BJ/LJ should have eyes on the clock to know if there is time left.

It might take me a second or two to stop the clock when the foul occurs during the normal part of the game. It won't be any different here.

This is brilliant, but I would change one thing. This situation has can of worms written all over it. A will argue vehemently that you did nothing about the B player laying on top of the ball carrier, which is what caused their player to react in the first place. B on the other hand will complain vehemently that you stopped the clock when it was obvious A would not get another play off.

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. A now has nothing to complain about. B can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Tough situation for sure. Always good to think these things through ahead of time. I doubt that it would be easy on the spur of the moment.

So what did you guys do, or is this hypothetical?

jchamp · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. B now has nothing to complain about. A can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Good catch. Thanks. And if there is no microphone on the field, it's even easier. Inform both captains what you're doing, set the box, the ball, wind and be ready to run.

MD Longhorn · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:48pm

Many of you are jumping to conclusions and inventing facts not in evidence. There were 10 seconds left, snap, handoff, run, pile, down... now there are 6.7 seconds left. There's NO WAY this is a foul on B... not yet, not that fast. If you're going to flag the USC, you can't just invent a foul on B to get yourselves out of hot water with B.

lilkidneys · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:00pm

B is under no obligation to unpile any faster than they normally would, and it is up to the officials, not A's QB, to determine if B is delaying the game. 3.3 seconds doesnt sound like too much time given a running play at the 1ydline, when there was obviously penetration by B. Down and distance were not given, so not sure they even had another play, but if they were playing for the tie, I think they would have planned the kick as the last timed down. If playing for the win, I think the clock running out is what they expected to happen.

WestCoaster · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchamp

...wind and be ready to run.

As in RUN FOR YOUR LIFE?

wyo-referee · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 09:38pm

First off, B wasn't delaying any, the QB for A was just trying to get his ball carrier off the turf so they could spike the ball. But, when he dwarf tossed the B player and I will say it wasn't to be unsporting in my mind, I think adrenaline kicked in. I called the PF for doing this because you just can't dwarf toss a player out of the way. If it was in the middle of the field with 5 minutes to go and there isn't an official on here that would let that go. I backed them up, set the ball and wound the clock in a normal fashion. They did get the ball spiked, but missed the FG. A's coach was pissed because he felt his team was penalized also. I followed the book and I don't think you can overlook a dead ball PF that is out in front of the whole stadium.

WestCoaster · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 10:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyo-referee

First off, B wasn't delaying any, the QB for A was just trying to get his ball carrier off the turf so they could spike the ball. But, when he dwarf tossed the B player and I will say it wasn't to be unsporting in my mind, I think adrenaline kicked in. I called the PF for doing this because you just can't dwarf toss a player out of the way. If it was in the middle of the field with 5 minutes to go and there isn't an official on here that would let that go. I backed them up, set the ball and wound the clock in a normal fashion. They did get the ball spiked, but missed the FG. A's coach was pissed because he felt his team was penalized also. I followed the book and I don't think you can overlook a dead ball PF that is out in front of the whole stadium.

Well then it sounds like you did the right thing.

bigjohn · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 23, 2012, 08:36am

In this specific situation the referee should
wind the clock and end the game without giving A an opportunity to put the ball
in play

If A runs runs the ball with less than ten seconds and no timeouts, you can not give them a chance to stop the clock because of a foul, no matter what it is.

I don't blame Bs coach, had A made the FG and then won in OT I would have been writing to the state!

parepat · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

This is brilliant, but I would change one thing. This situation has can of worms written all over it. A will argue vehemently that you did nothing about the B player laying on top of the ball carrier, which is what caused their player to react in the first place. B on the other hand will complain vehemently that you stopped the clock when it was obvious A would not get another play off.

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. A now has nothing to complain about. B can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Tough situation for sure. Always good to think these things through ahead of time. I doubt that it would be easy on the spur of the moment.

So what did you guys do, or is this hypothetical?

If you call a delay on the defense I would suggest that you start the clock on the snap. Otherwise, there might be an even bigger can of worms.

bigjohn · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:54pm

9.9.1 SITUATION A: A is trailing by five points and has no time-outs left when
the play ends on B’s 3. The referee does not feel there is any illegal delay in unpiling and that time will definitely expire before the ball is ready and A gets in
position to snap. Quarterback A1 reaches into the pile of players and grabs the
ball. He then throws the ball to midfield. RULING: Even if the referee imposes a
15-yard penalty for an unsportsmanlike act, A has accomplished its goal – the
clock is stopped and it can get in position and be ready to run a play even though
the clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. This situation illustrates when it
is appropriate for the referee to invoke the unfair-act rule and handle the situation
in any way that he feels is equitable. In this specific situation the referee should
wind the clock and end the game without giving A an opportunity to put the ball
in play. COMMENT: The rule also gives the referee authority to take appropriate
action whenever someone not subject to the rules hinders play. (3-4-6)

Rich · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 22, 2012, 12:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjohn

9.9.1 SITUATION A: A is trailing by five points and has no time-outs left when
the play ends on B’s 3. The referee does not feel there is any illegal delay in unpiling and that time will definitely expire before the ball is ready and A gets in
position to snap. Quarterback A1 reaches into the pile of players and grabs the
ball. He then throws the ball to midfield. RULING: Even if the referee imposes a
15-yard penalty for an unsportsmanlike act, A has accomplished its goal – the
clock is stopped and it can get in position and be ready to run a play even though
the clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. This situation illustrates when it
is appropriate for the referee to invoke the unfair-act rule and handle the situation
in any way that he feels is equitable. In this specific situation the referee should
wind the clock and end the game without giving A an opportunity to put the ball
in play. COMMENT: The rule also gives the referee authority to take appropriate
action whenever someone not subject to the rules hinders play. (3-4-6)

I'm the first one to criticize if I think you post something silly. Let me be the first to say I think this is a great case play citation that can easily be applied here.

Of course the crew will need an escort to the car, but that's another story...