What would you do?

[wyo-referee]

:10 seconds left on A's 1 yd. line, 20-17 is the score, A runs a running play and gets stuffed for a loss at the 3, they are out of TO's, trying to unpile the QB graps the defender laying on the RB with the ball by the back of the jersey and throws him off the pile. 6.7 seconds are now left, Do you:

A) call the PF on the QB, which will stop the clock and after penalty is stepped off gives them the chance to line-up and spike ball to stop clock and bring out the FG team?
B) ignore the PF and let clock run out?

Fed rules.

[maven]

First, it's unclear to me that you have a PF. He was trying to help his teammate get up so they could get set and spike it, right? If you're sure that this is a PF, then you must flag it and penalize, and the clock is secondary (not irrelevant, but secondary).

But if it's not obviously a PF, you have more options.

1. Ignore it and control the situation verbally.

2. If you judge that B was illegally attempting to consume time by being slow to get off the runner, then you can penalize that (3-6-2b, delay of game). The clock will start on the snap if you flag this.

3. You could even flag B for DOG and A for the PF, enforcing both DB fouls, clock on the snap.

[wyo-referee]

The defender was thrown from the pile, not just pulled off. He landed a couple yards away from the pile.

[maven]

Originally Posted by wyo-referee

The defender was thrown from the pile, not just pulled off. He landed a couple yards away from the pile.

OK, then what's the question? If you're certain it's a PF, then flag it. If not, it's difficult for anyone else to be certain without some video to review (and even then it can be hard).

As I mentioned, it's possible to have 2 flags here: one for DOG if B is intentionally being slow to unpile in order to consume time illegally, and one for your PF.

Maybe that's the best option, since then both teams will feel that you're screwing them.

[MD Longhorn]

His point is that if you penalize the pf you give a benefit to the team that fouls.

[CT1]

B) Ignore the PF and let clock run out.

A should have "clocked" the ball (or thrown a pass) instead of trying a run with no TO's left. Punish stupidity whenever possible.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by wyo-referee

:10 seconds left on A's 1 yd. line, 20-17 is the score, A runs a running play and gets stuffed for a loss at the 3, they are out of TO's, trying to unpile the QB graps the defender laying on the RB with the ball by the back of the jersey and throws him off the pile. 6.7 seconds are now left, Do you:

A) call the PF on the QB, which will stop the clock and after penalty is stepped off gives them the chance to line-up and spike ball to stop clock and bring out the FG team?
B) ignore the PF and let clock run out?

Fed rules.

(A) We don't ignore this PF where I come from.

[HLin NC]

#1: I think you mean B's 3 yard line.

#2:

throws him off the pile

Don't think you can use your concern over clock management to ignore a foul. This is HS football, you can't assume A will make the roughly 35 yard FG to TIE the game. Our job is not to predict the future. You deal with the issue at hand.

#3: If this is a real life play, how aggressive was your crew's dead ball officiating in this instance. This tight, we don't need to be letting A lay hands on B or vice versa. If there was no time to prevent it then A has to suffer the consequences, which will be 15 yards further back from a scoring opportunity.

3-4 ART. 6 . . . When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped.

This give you discretion. If B is slow to get off the pile, you are covered. If A's illegal act is allowing to conserve time, you are also covered.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

3-4 ART. 6 . . . When a team attempts to conserve or consume time illegally, the referee shall order the clock started or stopped.

This give you discretion. If B is slow to get off the pile, you are covered. If A's illegal act is allowing to conserve time, you are also covered.

That's what I thought -- that the power to start or stop the clock was plenary. However, ISTR a recent thread here where it was said that power was limited by other rules in a way that would disallow, for instance, running the clock during administration of the PF penalty here.

[jchamp]

Call HL and U together.

Tell HL to move the box back to the 18 WITHOUT DELAY.

Tell U to RUN the ball back to the 18 and move back to the 10.

Make the signals that are required, grab your laundry off the field, run back to position, give the ready and wind. If A is disciplined and fast enough to get the snap off and spike it, they can keep it. Don't delay in stopping the clock, and the BJ/LJ should have eyes on the clock to know if there is time left.

It might take me a second or two to stop the clock when the foul occurs during the normal part of the game. It won't be any different here.

[WestCoaster]

Originally Posted by jchamp

Call HL and U together.

Tell HL to move the box back to the 18 WITHOUT DELAY.

Tell U to RUN the ball back to the 18 and move back to the 10.

Make the signals that are required, grab your laundry off the field, run back to position, give the ready and wind. If A is disciplined and fast enough to get the snap off and spike it, they can keep it. Don't delay in stopping the clock, and the BJ/LJ should have eyes on the clock to know if there is time left.

It might take me a second or two to stop the clock when the foul occurs during the normal part of the game. It won't be any different here.

This is brilliant, but I would change one thing. This situation has can of worms written all over it. A will argue vehemently that you did nothing about the B player laying on top of the ball carrier, which is what caused their player to react in the first place. B on the other hand will complain vehemently that you stopped the clock when it was obvious A would not get another play off.

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. A now has nothing to complain about. B can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Tough situation for sure. Always good to think these things through ahead of time. I doubt that it would be easy on the spur of the moment.

So what did you guys do, or is this hypothetical?

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. B now has nothing to complain about. A can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Good catch. Thanks. And if there is no microphone on the field, it's even easier. Inform both captains what you're doing, set the box, the ball, wind and be ready to run.

[MD Longhorn]

Many of you are jumping to conclusions and inventing facts not in evidence. There were 10 seconds left, snap, handoff, run, pile, down... now there are 6.7 seconds left. There's NO WAY this is a foul on B... not yet, not that fast. If you're going to flag the USC, you can't just invent a foul on B to get yourselves out of hot water with B.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by WestCoaster

This is brilliant, but I would change one thing. This situation has can of worms written all over it. A will argue vehemently that you did nothing about the B player laying on top of the ball carrier, which is what caused their player to react in the first place. B on the other hand will complain vehemently that you stopped the clock when it was obvious A would not get another play off.

I would do just as you said, but place the ball at the 16 1/2, and signal dead ball delay of game against B, then dead ball personal foul against A. Enforce in order of occurrence. Then you're covered. A now has nothing to complain about. B can't complain that you stopped the clock, because their guy fouled first. Even though delay normally starts on the snap, you have the authority to wind it, which obviously you should.

Tough situation for sure. Always good to think these things through ahead of time. I doubt that it would be easy on the spur of the moment.

So what did you guys do, or is this hypothetical?

If you call a delay on the defense I would suggest that you start the clock on the snap. Otherwise, there might be an even bigger can of worms.

[bigjohn]

9.9.1 SITUATION A: A is trailing by five points and has no time-outs left when
the play ends on B’s 3. The referee does not feel there is any illegal delay in unpiling and that time will definitely expire before the ball is ready and A gets in
position to snap. Quarterback A1 reaches into the pile of players and grabs the
ball. He then throws the ball to midfield. RULING: Even if the referee imposes a
15-yard penalty for an unsportsmanlike act, A has accomplished its goal – the
clock is stopped and it can get in position and be ready to run a play even though
the clock will start on the ready-for-play signal. This situation illustrates when it
is appropriate for the referee to invoke the unfair-act rule and handle the situation
in any way that he feels is equitable. In this specific situation the referee should
wind the clock and end the game without giving A an opportunity to put the ball
in play. COMMENT: The rule also gives the referee authority to take appropriate
action whenever someone not subject to the rules hinders play. (3-4-6)