A rise in offensive shifts designed to make the defense encroach.

[BigBaldGuy]

Has anyone else seen a rise in shifts that are intended to make the defense encroach? These plays usually happen on 3rd or 4th down with less the 5 yards to go for a first down. The old Dallas Cowboy shift...in a two point quickly raise up to a standing position and then straight to a three point. Or when the entire offensive line dramatically shifts to a three point stance all at the same time. We had a team all in two point stance violently turn to the sideline to see what the audible was from the coach. All these plays are up to the crew’s discretion and covered in rule 7-1-7 a. and b.

ART. 7 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

[Tom.OH]

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.
Most coaches tell us that they do not do this BUT they have seen on tape the opponent doing it...

[waltjp]

If it's a foul it's a foul. Calling it should not be dependent on the defense's reaction.

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If it's a foul it's a foul. Calling it should not be dependent on the defense's reaction.

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

Hey, I'm with you, but the coach/referee conference isn't going to do anything with a crew that flags this other than cost the coach a timeout.

If the crew says it's a false start, it's a false start.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

Hey, I'm with you, but the coach/referee conference isn't going to do anything with a crew that flags this other than cost the coach a timeout.

If the crew says it's a false start, it's a false start.

7-1-7a/b don't require encroachment to have a false start foul, so the rule backing is solid.

That said, I get that this is called differently than it's worded.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

What are you going to tell that coach when they've been shifting all night and then suddenly in the 4th quarter, they shift, the defense jumps and you throw a flag?????

It's either a foul or it's not a foul. Whether the defense shifts has NOTHING to do with it.

And BTW, I would never tell a coach, "We're going to be calling ___________ tonight." That's just plain dumb.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

I guess I could just quote the case book:

From 7.1.7 Sit A
"These are acts interpreted to cause an opponent to encroach and, therefore, are infractions. It is the intent of the rules to prohibit such acts. Whether or not the action by A1 draws B into the neutral zone should not be the determining factor in ruling a false-start foul."

or,

7.1.7 Sit B
"This could be ruled a false start if the covering official(s) determine that it was designed to cause B to encroach. In judging the offensive team's intent, the game officials should consider whether players move to a new position, the speed and abruptness of movement, down and distance and if any player pretends to have the ball or otherwise simulate action at the snap with the start of a play."

The rule is pretty clear:


7-1-7 After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

[BigBaldGuy]

I have already flagged this in 3 or our varsity games this season. Last game the coach told me they haven't been flagged for that in 5 years. I calmly responded, "Coach, I am not going to apologize for knowing the rules!" "Coach, it is rule 7-1-7 A & B if you want to look it up."

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.

Really???

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.
Most coaches tell us that they do not do this BUT they have seen on tape the opponent doing it...

That sounds a little much. Why would you bring this up?

We did discuss this with a coach in the post season and only because the coach brought it up to use in the pre-game meeting. And we did discuss this in our crew pre-game meeting because it was brought to our attention they did this only in 4th and short situations. Otherwise we would not ever bring this up direclty to a coach. To me you are inviting trouble by mentioning this on your own.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Had a WH do this in a pre-game conference several years ago when he was watching my sideline warm-up. He pointed it out to the head coach who didn't say anything at the time but when he got flagged for it later gnawed on me for several minutes.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

We had a team all in two point stance violently turn to the sideline to see what the audible was from the coach.

This is one I see a lot of in the D-III NCAA conference I watch fairly often. Generally, the two ends and four backs will jerk up simultaneously from their set position and turn to look at the coach. Yesterday, one of the tackles joined his teammates in this action. I've often wondered what the officials would do if the DT came across the neutral zone.

[bigjohn]

I am seeing more and more shift/motion without the 1 second required before motion. Can't get an official to call it though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I am seeing more and more shift/motion without the 1 second required before motion. Can't get an official to call it though.

When in doubt, it's a second.

If there's an appreciable delay between the shift/motion, it's probably going to be ruled to be a second by most competent crews.