Shifts,Motions and Illegal touching

[U52]

When should you blow the whistle for an illegal shift? Should you blow it dead at the snap or just flag it and let the play go? I believe the illegal motion you should blow it dead before the play has a chance to get started. Also, during a free kick, what is the correct call for a kick that is touched by K and downed before it goes 10 yards? Do you flag it?

[mikesears]

Illegal shifts are live ball fouls. Let the play go.

Illegal motion is a live ball foul. Let the play go.

However, when illegal motion is actually a "false start", it is a dead ball foul.

First touching is NOT a foul and should not be flagged. It should only be bean bagged at the spot of first touching.

[ajmc]

Both fouls, Illegal shift and illegal motion are considered fouls that occur simultaneously with the snap, and are therefore live ball fouls which do NOT kill the play.

The logic is that we have no way of knowing which shift is the last shift, or if there will be another legal shift made before the snap. With illegal motion, the foul only relates to "motion at the snap", so that a player who does move in an improper direction can change direction before the ball is snapped correcting his problem.

A free kick touched by K before it has gone the required 10 yards (or is touched by R) is "First Touching" which is considered a "Violation" rather than a foul. The spot of First Touching should be marked with a bean bag, rather than a flag.

[boboman316]

I had a game in the past where I was on team A's sideline. There was two people moving at the same time at the snap (illegal shift) and he wasn't happy when I threw the flag. The play went on, and team B intercepted the ball and returned it for a TD. And all I heard the whole way down the sideline was "why didn't you kill the play, we fouled!!!" So he wasn't happy I flagged him, and then he wanted me to kill it after the turnover. This is another reason why motion and shifts are live ball fouls. If the player simulates the snap (reciever or back going on 1 instead of 2) then it shoudl be a false start.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by boboman316

I had a game in the past where I was on team A's sideline. There was two people moving at the same time at the snap (illegal shift).......

Two people moving at the snap is illegal motion, not an illegal shift.

Illegal Motion:

7-2-7...ART. 7 . . . Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line. Except for the player “under the snapper,” as outlined in Article 3, the player in motion shall be at least 5 yards behind his line of scrimmage at the snap if he started from any position not clearly behind the line and did not establish himself as a back by stopping for at least one full second while no part of his body is breaking the vertical plane through the waistline of his nearest teammate who is on the line of scrimmage.

An illegal shift would have occurred had one of your two guys stopped (shifted) while the other one didn't and continued his motion at the snap. S shift occurs when a player stops moving. If he does, then everyone has to stop for at least one second.

[trocared]

Originally Posted by U52

When should you blow the whistle for an illegal shift?

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER.

Found out that little gem the first year I officiated, I will never forget it either.
cheers,
tro

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by boboman316

I had a game in the past where I was on team A's sideline. There was two people moving at the same time at the snap (illegal shift) and he wasn't happy when I threw the flag. The play went on, and team B intercepted the ball and returned it for a TD. And all I heard the whole way down the sideline was "why didn't you kill the play, we fouled!!!" So he wasn't happy I flagged him, and then he wanted me to kill it after the turnover. This is another reason why motion and shifts are live ball fouls. If the player simulates the snap (reciever or back going on 1 instead of 2) then it shoudl be a false start.

Are you suggesting that you have a coach there who wants to have it both ways? Wow, how unique!

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by kdf5

Two people moving at the snap is illegal motion, not an illegal shift.

Illegal Motion:

7-2-7...ART. 7 . . . Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line. Except for the player “under the snapper,” as outlined in Article 3, the player in motion shall be at least 5 yards behind his line of scrimmage at the snap if he started from any position not clearly behind the line and did not establish himself as a back by stopping for at least one full second while no part of his body is breaking the vertical plane through the waistline of his nearest teammate who is on the line of scrimmage.

Or

7-2-6 After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.

PENALTY: illegal shift (Art. 6) – (S20)