A rise in offensive shifts designed to make the defense encroach.

[Tom.OH]

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.
Most coaches tell us that they do not do this BUT they have seen on tape the opponent doing it...

[waltjp]

If it's a foul it's a foul. Calling it should not be dependent on the defense's reaction.

[Tom.OH]

Originally Posted by waltjp

If it's a foul it's a foul. Calling it should not be dependent on the defense's reaction.

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

Hey, I'm with you, but the coach/referee conference isn't going to do anything with a crew that flags this other than cost the coach a timeout.

If the crew says it's a false start, it's a false start.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

Hey, I'm with you, but the coach/referee conference isn't going to do anything with a crew that flags this other than cost the coach a timeout.

If the crew says it's a false start, it's a false start.

7-1-7a/b don't require encroachment to have a false start foul, so the rule backing is solid.

That said, I get that this is called differently than it's worded.

[bigjohn]

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

It's not a foul unless the defense jumps into the NZ. If they do not jump its just a shift.

Let's look at an example:
A 3 down/4 yards. They snap down hard but they do not draw the defense.
Flag thrown against A.
Coach demands a coach Referee conf to ask what was the penality?
R says your line snapped down.
Coach said they went from a 2 point to a 3 point stance, show me in the rule book where that is a foul. I can see if it drew the other team but all we did was shift.
R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

What are you going to tell that coach when they've been shifting all night and then suddenly in the 4th quarter, they shift, the defense jumps and you throw a flag?????

It's either a foul or it's not a foul. Whether the defense shifts has NOTHING to do with it.

And BTW, I would never tell a coach, "We're going to be calling ___________ tonight." That's just plain dumb.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

R - what are you going to say to the coach now?

I guess I could just quote the case book:

From 7.1.7 Sit A
"These are acts interpreted to cause an opponent to encroach and, therefore, are infractions. It is the intent of the rules to prohibit such acts. Whether or not the action by A1 draws B into the neutral zone should not be the determining factor in ruling a false-start foul."

or,

7.1.7 Sit B
"This could be ruled a false start if the covering official(s) determine that it was designed to cause B to encroach. In judging the offensive team's intent, the game officials should consider whether players move to a new position, the speed and abruptness of movement, down and distance and if any player pretends to have the ball or otherwise simulate action at the snap with the start of a play."

The rule is pretty clear:


7-1-7 After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

[BigBaldGuy]

I have already flagged this in 3 or our varsity games this season. Last game the coach told me they haven't been flagged for that in 5 years. I calmly responded, "Coach, I am not going to apologize for knowing the rules!" "Coach, it is rule 7-1-7 A & B if you want to look it up."

[bigjohn]

We had a game where when the opposing team got ready to PAT the slapped their thighs. The white hat comes over to our head coach and says, "Coach, if you guys jump I am going to flag them for false start when they do that."

I just looked at him a said, "You don't really understand that ruling at all, do you?"

I told him where to find it and told them it was FS whether we jumped or not. He said you are right but I am not going to call it unless the defense jumps.

After the game we talked and he agreed 100% that I was right but it didn't change the way he called it that night or how he will call it in the future.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

We had a game where when the opposing team got ready to PAT the slapped their thighs. The white hat comes over to our head coach and says, "Coach, if you guys jump I am going to flag them for false start when they do that."

I just looked at him a said, "You don't really understand that ruling at all, do you?"

I told him where to find it and told them it was FS whether we jumped or not. He said you are right but I am not going to call it unless the defense jumps.

After the game we talked and he agreed 100% that I was right but it didn't change the way he called it that night or how he will call it in the future.

Officials that don't know the rules bug me somewhat, although at least they can be shown the rule and retrained, and they generally are trying to do what they think is right, even if they don't know what that is.

But officials that KNOW the rules and choose to intentionally rule differently bug the everloving crap out of me.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.

Really???

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

Our crew discusses this when we meet with the head coaches. We tell them we will call FS if the snapdown causes the defense to jump into the NZ.
Most coaches tell us that they do not do this BUT they have seen on tape the opponent doing it...

That sounds a little much. Why would you bring this up?

We did discuss this with a coach in the post season and only because the coach brought it up to use in the pre-game meeting. And we did discuss this in our crew pre-game meeting because it was brought to our attention they did this only in 4th and short situations. Otherwise we would not ever bring this up direclty to a coach. To me you are inviting trouble by mentioning this on your own.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Had a WH do this in a pre-game conference several years ago when he was watching my sideline warm-up. He pointed it out to the head coach who didn't say anything at the time but when he got flagged for it later gnawed on me for several minutes.