Kick, receive or defer revisited

[voiceoflg]

Varsity NFHS game. The white hat graciously allowed our sideline announcer to join them for the coin toss and put that on that radio. We are seldom allowed that, but it was good to let our listeners hear that.

Last night the referee asked the home team. who won the toss, what they wanted to do. This team is 6-29 since the start of the 2009 season. The captain said "we want to kick." The referee said "So you are deferring, then." The captain said "no, we want to kick." The referee said "OK" and stepped back. He then said "Blue has won the toss and elected to defer..."

I explained on the air that even though that is not what the kid said, that is probably what he meant and the referee did the right thing keeping the home team from kicking to start both halves. Good job by the white hat, IMO.

[maven]

Certain mistakes we won't let them make.

My crew always asks the head coach what he'd like to do if he wins (defer or receive), and which way he'd like to kick. So we know what the answer is before the captain gives it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by maven

Certain mistakes we won't let them make.

My crew always asks the head coach what he'd like to do if he wins (defer or receive), and which way he'd like to kick. So we know what the answer is before the captain gives it.

This. I started asking the coach in the pre-game what his intention is if he wins the toss.

But if the captain says "kick", I find a way to restate the question, interpreting that he misheard me somehow. Examples:

• maybe he made a selection before I was finished giving all of the choices
• maybe he was confused by a teammate or opponent talking
• maybe he doesn't know what "defer" means
• I might interpret that I stumbled on a word and it wasn't audible
• I may tell him that "your choice has some instruction for you"
• remind him that if he chooses "kick", then "that team" {pointing to opponents} chooses in the 2nd half

But.... if he says "kick" again, then kick it is.

[Texas Aggie]

The R in the OP handled it right: correct them once, then announce defer. DO NOT allow them to choose the kick option. Defer gets them to the same place, and if something weird like wind is at play, choosing the end of the field gets them to play defense first if they choose.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

The R in the OP handled it right: correct them once, then announce defer. DO NOT allow them to choose the kick option. Defer gets them to the same place, and if something weird like wind is at play, choosing the end of the field gets them to play defense first if they choose.

Another way to make the same point: by interpreting "kick" to mean "defer," they STILL have to option to kick twice, if that's what they really want.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

Another way to make the same point: by interpreting "kick" to mean "defer," they STILL have to option to kick twice, if that's what they really want.

I thought the same thing...

About 3 years ago, we had a RIDICULOUSLY windy game on our hands. The kid said "kick". R said, "are you sure you don't mean defer". Kid said, "No, I'm sure - coach said to kick." R (as we've all seen before, and as was done in the OP) signalled that his side deferred. Then, as he's about to ask the kid that won the toss what side they want to defend, the OTHER kid pipes up, "Then WE want to kick."

That was a S-Storm to fix. We did NOT look good after that.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by maven

Certain mistakes we won't let them make.

My crew always asks the head coach what he'd like to do if he wins (defer or receive), and which way he'd like to kick. So we know what the answer is before the captain gives it.

I used to ask the HC that for youth contests and young HC's....nowadays, they all say..."They'll know what I want them to do when they get out there". I kid you not...I have had this 4 times this year up here in WI....3 of the 4 in the Sheboygan area....maybe something in the water.

Once in a varsity game and the other 3 in JV contests. I watched a crew a few years back "let" the winner of the toss kick twice to start both halves, and you are setting yourself up with a recipe for disaster and a long night if you don't just oblige and help the spokesman with a simple correction, IMO. You may teach a coach and players a heck of a lesson....but I like to start my games off on a good note. I have corrected A LOT of coaches on this over the years, and never has one complained...usually it is instead followed up with a "Thank you, sir."

I felt compelled to add this after seeing the youth football banter. I worked AAYFL youth here in WI for 16 years along with my hs contests during that same time. Youth had some weight adaptations and point structures and a few odds and ends that differed...but the WIAA adaptation of the FED rules oversaw/covered everything else. I am fairly good friends with 9 or 10 HS and youth officials across the country from coast to coast and they all did or still do youth and those programs abide by NFHS rules with minor league adaptations....other than the State of Texas, and I think Pennsylvania tweaks theirs a bit. My experience here is that maybe 10-15% still do youth football games fairly regularly and the majority is high school officials with another 30 to 40% doing college, and 10-15% doing pro, semi-pro, or using pro rules....just a guess.


Good day.

[Robert Goodman]

One thing that affects the number of official-hours at the various levels is the number of officials per game. The higher you go, the larger the crew.

But as to attitudes regarding letting the captains make their mistakes, I've got to ask, is the game for the children to play, or are they our (adults') playthings?

[glyphrunner]

"Team A, you have won the toss. You may defer your choice to the second half, or you may receive, kick, or defend a goal. What is your choice?"

I have never had a problem with responses when I pose it this way. Only at the junior high / middle school level will I question multiple times their choice other than defer/receive. You want to kick the ball to them? Are you sure you want to give them the ball?

I have had only three instances in 17 years where the captain chose anything other than defer or receive.

• One time was with a completely uncoached JV captain. He insisted on defending because of the wind.
• The second time was a team (choosing defend) that was an absolute monster on defense. They actually had more points on defense than they did on offense.
• The third time was a team (choosing defend) with a strong passing game wanting to choose the wind.