NFHS Football Rules Changes

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Tom.OH

Rich, the Ohio mechanics have the BJ on the 40, the U on the 50, R on the goal line and the L &LJ on the goal line pylons for the first free kick for each team. We then adjust for the next kick. If the first kick is long inside the 5 or deeper we will stay on the goal line. If the kick is shorter we will move to the 10. We will watch the kicker in warm ups or ask the coach if his kicker can get it to the end zone. Our football director wants the goal line protected.

I want 3 officials on the goal line, too. I sure hope this is the new NFHS mechanic. If you've ever watched the Sumstine Aloha Classic videos, he advocates for this, as well.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I want 3 officials on the goal line, too. I sure hope this is the new NFHS mechanic. If you've ever watched the Sumstine Aloha Classic videos, he advocates for this, as well.

That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Why not analyze this issue in terms of what's likely to be missed, how often, and how severe the consequences? Seems to me the chance of missing a touchback that should've been called when someone reaches over the plane of the goal line for the ball so it can't be seen except by an official whose eye is in that plane whether the ball broke that plane is pretty small compared to calls that might be missed elsewhere on the field. The consequences in the touchback case might be substantial, but I don't know that they'd be greater on avg. than the consequences of other blown calls on a kickoff.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Why not analyze this issue in terms of what's likely to be missed, how often, and how severe the consequences? Seems to me the chance of missing a touchback that should've been called when someone reaches over the plane of the goal line for the ball so it can't be seen except by an official whose eye is in that plane whether the ball broke that plane is pretty small compared to calls that might be missed elsewhere on the field. The consequences in the touchback case might be substantial, but I don't know that they'd be greater on avg. than the consequences of other blown calls on a kickoff.

I have to agree with this sentiment. For the most part, one R standing on the goal line can pivot and clearly see if the ball crosses. One situation that threatens is the "catch and carry" into the end zone, and I'm sure there are others that can be. But taking one of your four remaining downfield officials and putting him on the goal line for this rather rare situation (which can still be remedied by a quick-witted R) asks for problems elsewhere.
As a chronic LJ/BJ, I would much rather have the help downfield. But, I trust my R to make a solid call and be able to cover that line. YMMV.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jchamp

I have to agree with this sentiment. For the most part, one R standing on the goal line can pivot and clearly see if the ball crosses. One situation that threatens is the "catch and carry" into the end zone, and I'm sure there are others that can be. But taking one of your four remaining downfield officials and putting him on the goal line for this rather rare situation (which can still be remedied by a quick-witted R) asks for problems elsewhere.
As a chronic LJ/BJ, I would much rather have the help downfield. But, I trust my R to make a solid call and be able to cover that line. YMMV.

Again, my reason for wanting the officials deep has *nothing* to do with the ball threatening the goal line. No reason to rehash those posts, though, they're still in this thread.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.



And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.



I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

[CT1]

Our state starts the H & U on the 20, the R between the GL & 5. We're seeing a lot more "pooch" kicks that are received (and often fair caught) around the 30. This coverage allows them to 'split the difference" while still covering leading blocks ahead of a returner.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

And Arizona is the state that implemented what Sumstine has been preaching in the Aloha Classic videos for years -- he's mentioned it in the videos. We've played with this coverage in subvarsity games and it's fantastic. If the kick is short, the pylon officials run forward and are probably 10 yards ahead by the time the kick comes down -- they have everything in front of them and can cover exactly what they cover starting on the 20/30 -- even more, actually since nothing will ever force them to turn and look behind them.

My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

I do not agree with that necessarily as it is based on what you are focused on and what you have experience doing. I am just saying that the GL is one of the easiest things to cover on a kick off and you do not need 3 guys to do it. You are always going to have holes no matter what we do with 5 officials, but the GL is usually based solely on the ability of the kicker and not many HS teams have a kicker that can even threaten the GL in the first place. I would rather put more officials further up the field. Seven officials would be much better of course, but until that happens putting the majority of the 5 man crew at a place where little takes place is not IMO helpful to total coverage. If they did change it, we would deal with it, but I do not think it is the best way to cover these plays, especially with many players withing the first 20 yards from the kick off line.

Peace

[HLin NC]

reported

[Brad]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

reported

Thanks! I've made some changes that have cut down on the spam quite a bit — looking at some long term solutions and working on getting info together for those that have volunteered to moderate (if anyone is interested, email me at [email protected])

Don't feel that you have to post "Reported" in the thread if you don't want to ... if multiple people report it, it's not a big deal. Either way is fine.

[JaxRef13672]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

Most kicks may not get close to the goal line in your area but they certainly do in mine. 57% of all the kickoffs in my games this past year in Jacksonvile, Fl resulted in touchbacks. With the increasing leg strength of the HS kickers, I wouild like to see the touchback rule changed to be the same as the NCAA. With so many kicks going into the end zone, think R should have the ability to return the kick out of the end zone if he chooses.

Know this will never happen though with all of the recent discussion regarding elevated injury risk associated with KO returns.

[HLin NC]

57% of all the kickoffs in my games

Who charts this stuff? Who really cares enough to check it?

In hotbeds of HS football and/or soccer, there might be the odd kicker that can boot it into the end zone but in most locales, the odds would be no where close to 60%.

The passing game has increased signicantly but NC isn't close to adding 6 or 7 man crews to officiate it.

Conjecture is fun to a point but I think I'll just wait to see the new mechanics manual and how my state/area responds.