NFHS Football Rules Changes

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That seems like a lot for 5 man mechanics and for a level where most kicks do not even get close to the goal line.

Peace

On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

On Friday nights? We had quite a few kickers this past year that routinely kicked touchbacks. Most varsity kickers where we worked put the ball inside the 10-15 regularly.

I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Regardless, it's better starting on the goal line and working up than trying to pick up your blocks as the ball zips past you and potentially having to turn your head if the ball threatens the sideline. A L at the 30 having to turn to watch the ball go out of bounds behind him is pretty useless picking up illegal blocks, etc.

And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Putting the L and U (or whoever) on the GL (or even the 10) means if there's a short kick, they can run forward -- and regardless, the players and action will always be in *front* of them.

I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Why not analyze this issue in terms of what's likely to be missed, how often, and how severe the consequences? Seems to me the chance of missing a touchback that should've been called when someone reaches over the plane of the goal line for the ball so it can't be seen except by an official whose eye is in that plane whether the ball broke that plane is pretty small compared to calls that might be missed elsewhere on the field. The consequences in the touchback case might be substantial, but I don't know that they'd be greater on avg. than the consequences of other blown calls on a kickoff.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I understand that, but I think two or one official can cover that just fine. Also this also means that the ball is recovered to about the 20-35 on some level and that puts a lot of pressure on the BJ or wing to cover blocks in the middle of the field. I think that is more of a hot spot than near the GL which most Referees can cover.



And it would be harder for guys on the 40 and 50 to do the same with blocks. Too much happens in the 10 yard part of the field that if missed would be hard to cover if they had to now follow the ball on a short kick IMO.



I would go for them moving to the 10 than on the both on the GL. Even in 7 man they put 4 officials on the 40 and 50 to cover all those blocks. Just as an experienced BJ I would hate to have to now have to cover the ball in a way I never have to under the current state mechanics we use. I guess I was not under the impression that the NF did not have officials in the place that was suggested, but that is the way we have done it for years.

Peace

In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

[CT1]

Our state starts the H & U on the 20, the R between the GL & 5. We're seeing a lot more "pooch" kicks that are received (and often fair caught) around the 30. This coverage allows them to 'split the difference" while still covering leading blocks ahead of a returner.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

In AZ, BJ has the kickers, LJ has the receivers, HL and U are on a pylon, R is in the middle on the goal line. If kicks are consistenly short, the U and the HL will slide up to the 10. It seems to work out well, and from looking at film, it doesn't look like we miss a lot. Whichever sideline official is across the field form the kick starts upfield and takes the blocking in front of the runner. That alleviates some of the possible gaps in coverage.

And Arizona is the state that implemented what Sumstine has been preaching in the Aloha Classic videos for years -- he's mentioned it in the videos. We've played with this coverage in subvarsity games and it's fantastic. If the kick is short, the pylon officials run forward and are probably 10 yards ahead by the time the kick comes down -- they have everything in front of them and can cover exactly what they cover starting on the 20/30 -- even more, actually since nothing will ever force them to turn and look behind them.

My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My eyes are good -- I can pick up a bad block at the 25-30 from a long distance away. I have *no chance* to pick up that block, however, if I'm the L and the kick threatens my sideline behind me. None.

I'd rather have 7 officials, but we're not getting any more anytime soon.

I do not agree with that necessarily as it is based on what you are focused on and what you have experience doing. I am just saying that the GL is one of the easiest things to cover on a kick off and you do not need 3 guys to do it. You are always going to have holes no matter what we do with 5 officials, but the GL is usually based solely on the ability of the kicker and not many HS teams have a kicker that can even threaten the GL in the first place. I would rather put more officials further up the field. Seven officials would be much better of course, but until that happens putting the majority of the 5 man crew at a place where little takes place is not IMO helpful to total coverage. If they did change it, we would deal with it, but I do not think it is the best way to cover these plays, especially with many players withing the first 20 yards from the kick off line.

Peace

[bisonlj]

We implemented Matt's suggestion this year and started the U and H on the 10 with the R on the goal line. The U and H aren't helping as much with goal line for touchbacks but does need to be in position to rule on balls that threaten the pylon. If you start on the 20 or 30 you will have a hard time getting that angle. The pylon wasn't threatened often but it was enough that we appreciated being where we were.

The better reason for starting there was the ability to keep everything in front of you and not having the kick pass by your face. If we had teams that always kicked short or pooch kicked it to the 30-40 we had no problems covering that.

In our last playoff game I had a kicker sail one that flew about 10 yards OVER the top of the pylon. I reacted late so I wasn't standing at the pylon when it went over but I was close enough I felt comfortable ruling touchback. We started the rest of the game on the pylon. Most of the kicks threatened the goal line (over 100 points scored so there were a lot of kicks) and a couple threatened the pylon. We also had some pooch kicks that we were able to cover with no issues.

I personally think it would be better to have the H and L deep since they are more accustomed to ruling on things like progress. If they want 3 with the kick lines then I think the R and whoever else is deep should both start on the plyons. They can move up if the kicks are consistently short.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not agree with that necessarily as it is based on what you are focused on and what you have experience doing. I am just saying that the GL is one of the easiest things to cover on a kick off and you do not need 3 guys to do it. You are always going to have holes no matter what we do with 5 officials, but the GL is usually based solely on the ability of the kicker and not many HS teams have a kicker that can even threaten the GL in the first place. I would rather put more officials further up the field. Seven officials would be much better of course, but until that happens putting the majority of the 5 man crew at a place where little takes place is not IMO helpful to total coverage. If they did change it, we would deal with it, but I do not think it is the best way to cover these plays, especially with many players withing the first 20 yards from the kick off line.

Peace

The majority of the illegal blocks I see on kickoffs are on the first threat to the returner -- not up the field further. Most of those illegal blocks are inside the 20, in my experience, unless a kick is broken through the first line of defense.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The majority of the illegal blocks I see on kickoffs are on the first threat to the returner -- not up the field further. Most of those illegal blocks are inside the 20, in my experience, unless a kick is broken through the first line of defense.

But what kind of illegal are they? When you have team K running full speed past a set of blockers close to their own restraining line, the incentive to reach outside and grab someone otherwise whooshing by must be great. Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

But what kind of illegal are they? When you have team K running full speed past a set of blockers close to their own restraining line, the incentive to reach outside and grab someone otherwise whooshing by must be great. Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.

BIB is very very common.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bcl1127

BIB is very very common.

But we're looking at what RichMSN picks up most often. How do we know that he's not seeing most BiB, and missing the holds in the situation described above?

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

But what kind of illegal are they?

Mostly either BiB or BBW.

Those players on team R are often among the slowest on the roster, and it's hard for them to get their bodies in the path of the coverage.

I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by CT1

I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

Agreed here...I was thinking the same thing when I read the OP

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

Mostly either BiB or BBW.


I wonder how much high-level football you really see. R's players (at least around here) are usually among the best athletes on the team. Holding by R before the runback starts is very rare.

Holding is common close to the LOS on punts, typically by R players slowing up gunners. Just doesn't happen on kickoffs, IME.

Most illegal activity on kickoffs, in my experience, are close to the point of attack - either IBB or IBBW. I'd say that with the current mechanics system I personally flag at least half of those fouls. Clearly, if there's a long return, that foul can be downfield, however many of these fouls happen right around the time R catches the ball.

My point is that I think the the AZ mechanic puts the officials where I think they can see the most without sacrificing sideline / pylon coverage.