PI mechanics question, 4-man crew

[MD Longhorn]

In 4 man, a lot of the B responsibilities can be and should be covered by U, depending on how deep they occur. I have no problem with U calling a PI that he is sure of, and would not consider this poaching a call.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

In 4 man, a lot of the B responsibilities can be and should be covered by U, depending on how deep they occur. I have no problem with U calling a PI that he is sure of, and would not consider this poaching a call.

Agree. With more and more JV teams running spread offenses, trying to watch all 4 or 5 receivers with 2 pairs of eyes is impossible. If you want a DPI on an underneath route, either the U gets it or you need a fifth official.

[bcl1127]

I would think it would be fine for the U to make this call. As the Linesman on both a 4 and 5 person crew, there are many PI calls that from my angle I cannot see, and I really have a great Back Judge who helps with a bunch of those calls, in the 4 man games, that would be the U.

Lots of times, I might be shielded from contact if it occurs on the other side of the receiver, so that's something the U in 4 man and the BJ in 5 man can clearly see being in the middle of the field. I would never be upset if a flag came from one of my partners, they are there to see the different angles, just because I might be the closest does not mean I can see everything.

[Rich]

I'm with the rest who think it's perfectly fine in 4-man for the U to help out here.

[zm1283]

FWIW, this wasn't an underneath route. The play happened about 4-5 yards from the sideline and about 15 yards from the LOS and the corner was playing behind the receiver. I think the U was straightlined pretty badly, which is one reason why I thought he shouldn't have thrown the flag. The wing guy was moving toward the play and had what looked like a great angle from the side. (The same angle I had since I was standing right behind him)

I could see throwing the flag if it's a route somewhere in the middle of the field. (Drag, dig, maybe a post) It just appeared that he poached the wing official's call based on where they both were and where the play occured. Thanks for the replies.

[InsideTheStripe]

Originally Posted by zm1283

FWIW, this wasn't an underneath route. The play happened about 4-5 yards from the sideline and about 15 yards from the LOS and the corner was playing behind the receiver. I think the U was straightlined pretty badly, which is one reason why I thought he shouldn't have thrown the flag. The wing guy was moving toward the play and had what looked like a great angle from the side. (The same angle I had since I was standing right behind him)

Under that scenario, I'd be upset with the flag if I were the L/LJ. That said, I agree with the others that the U should not shy away from PI calls when they have the best line of sight in a four man.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by zm1283

FWIW, this wasn't an underneath route. The play happened about 4-5 yards from the sideline and about 15 yards from the LOS and the corner was playing behind the receiver. I think the U was straightlined pretty badly, which is one reason why I thought he shouldn't have thrown the flag. The wing guy was moving toward the play and had what looked like a great angle from the side. (The same angle I had since I was standing right behind him)

I could see throwing the flag if it's a route somewhere in the middle of the field. (Drag, dig, maybe a post) It just appeared that he poached the wing official's call based on where they both were and where the play occured. Thanks for the replies.

Let's face it...you didn't like the call and nothing we say is going to change that.

There's nothing wrong with the U making this call. You asked, you don't like the answer. So be it.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Let's face it...you didn't like the call and nothing we say is going to change that.

There's nothing wrong with the U making this call. You asked, you don't like the answer. So be it.

I didn't really tell the rest of the story at first because it wasn't relevant, but after this play happened, our tight end got held by a linebacker twice when releasing for a seam route down the middle of the field.

No, I didn't agree with it, but I let it go until our guy was held twice right in front of the U and neither were called.

[jTheUmp]

The "rest of the story" still isn't relevant, so why bring it up?

But since you did....prior to a pass being thrown, the U isn't going to be looking at TE/LB action, the U's primary responsibility is to watch the blocking action of the interior linemen (Center, Guards, and Tackle on the R's side).

In a 4-man system, the TE/LB action isn't going to be in the primary focus of anyone initially, especially if there are receivers outside of the tight end. Them's the breaks of only having 4 sets of eyes to watch 22 players.

So you decided to whine/complain to the officials at the game and to us because the U threw a flag in an area that is his responsibility, but then didn't throw a flag for something that's not part of his area of responsibility. Stay classy, coach.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I didn't really tell the rest of the story at first because it wasn't relevant, but after this play happened, our tight end got held by a linebacker twice when releasing for a seam route down the middle of the field.

No, I didn't agree with it, but I let it go until our guy was held twice right in front of the U and neither were called.

Hire more officials then! Tough for an Umpire to see this as this is not their initial key in most mechanics sets. With fewer officials on the field there are more holes in coverages to see a lot of things. Five officials is tough enough, four in today's game is much more of a problem.

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

.
So you decided to whine/complain to the officials at the game and to us because the U threw a flag in an area that is his responsibility, but then didn't throw a flag for something that's not part of his area of responsibility. Stay classy, coach.

At least two people who have replied said it was not his area.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Hire more officials then! Tough for an Umpire to see this as this is not their initial key in most mechanics sets. With fewer officials on the field there are more holes in coverages to see a lot of things. Five officials is tough enough, four in today's game is much more of a problem.

Peace

Why use that crutch? We would never actually say this in baseball or basketball when working 2-man, so why can it be used in football?