Proper spot and down?

[tomes1978]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Happens all the time: official sees player jump on the ball but does not see possession (typically the player's back is to the official). Official blows whistle while the ball is still loose, and an opponent recovers. Classic IW.

I had one the other day just like this. Luckily it was in a freshman game, I still wanted to go hide under a rock!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tomes1978

I had one the other day just like this. Luckily it was in a freshman game, I still wanted to go hide under a rock!

We all have one. The trick... just have ONE.

[Rich]

I've had 2 in my career.

One was in a freshman game where I was dealing with 16 year olds working the chains. I had a ball disappear into the line and I thought I saw the football. Whoops. The varsity coach was laughing and yelling at his players working the chains to pay attention so I could work the game.

Another was in Week 1 one year when I hadn't gotten any field work in. The QB got absolutely smeared and I reached for my flag to flag roughing and I accidentally blew my whistle (what, did I think I was working basketball?). Fortunately for me, the ball was intercepted, so the RTP took precedence anyway. Lesson? Why didn't the whistle drop at the snap like it normally does?

Now I'm a white hat most of the time and it's rare I ever blow my whistle.

[MD Longhorn]

My one happened in my first 4A game a few years back. WR and CB on my side were getting chippy. Ball is snapped and all of a sudden they start beating the crap out of each other. Flagged it, blew the whistle, got out of the way and started writing down numbers as it got worse.

Only after things settled down did my WH mention in the way only he could... 'Hey, um ... did you notice we had a play going on over here when you whistled it?"

Beer was on me that night.

[Scuba_ref]

Friday night I was admiring a tackle by the back of the helmet and looking for a facemask call when the runner went down and I blew my whistle and didn't drop my flag...at that point I see the defense running down field with the ball...I'm still kicking myself!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I ignore coaches that ask for quicker whistles. I know what happens when we try to speed up the whistles.

We often have plays with no whistle at all. So that should tell you what I think of coach's requests.

Peace

[Scooby]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We often have plays with no whistle at all. So that should tell you what I think of coach's requests.

Peace

I had a game last week and a coach must have said 100 times near the end of a play "blow and whistle and save a kid." That got real annoying!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by cubes32

Offense has the ball, 3rd and goal on the 4 yard line. Shotgun snap goes over QB's head. Halfback fall on the ball at the 14 yard line. Head Linesman blows the play dead, assuming HB has recovered the ball. The ball squirts loose and the defense recovers. After the officials meet, they confirm the whistle had blown the play dead at the 14. A coach from the defensive team runs out on the field, berates the officials, and receives an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty. The ball is placed at approximately the 3 yard line and third down is repeated.

Is that the correct placement of the ball and should it still be third down?

CANADIAN RULING:

If the play was not over by rule, then we have an IW. Team A will opt to replay the down. Also assess the 10 yards for the B coach on the field. Result is Team A 1D/G @ B-2.

If the play was over by rule, then we do not have an IW. Assess the 10 yards for the B coach on the field. Result is Team A 4D/G @ B-7.

If the down was the last down (3 downs in Canada), then we have a turnover on downs, and we get Team B 1D/10 @ B-7.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Scooby

I had a game last week and a coach must have said 100 times near the end of a play "blow and whistle and save a kid." That got real annoying!

I would have stopped that, by saying, "Then they need to find another sport to play. Football is not for them."

Peace

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

You're kidding, right? I'd say that MOST of the IW's I've seen were blown by an official who thought they saw the play end, when everyone else saw the ball loose.

Of course they are. But then there'd have to be something wrong with the description we were given of someone's having fallen on the ball, and then its having squirted out. Maybe what he meant was that, due to parallax, one official thought he saw the player fall on the ball, but actually fall between him and the ball.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Of course they are. But then there'd have to be something wrong with the description we were given of someone's having fallen on the ball, and then its having squirted out. Maybe what he meant was that, due to parallax, one official thought he saw the player fall on the ball, but actually fall between him and the ball.

You've never seen a player fall ON a football and it squirts out the other side?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Of course they are. But then there'd have to be something wrong with the description we were given of someone's having fallen on the ball, and then its having squirted out. Maybe what he meant was that, due to parallax, one official thought he saw the player fall on the ball, but actually fall between him and the ball.

The more you talk, the more I suspect you've never been on the field or possibly even watched a game on TV. Seems to me that when a player dives on a football - MOST of the time, it squirts somewhere. Especially if that ball was still moving. This has nothing to do with parallax - it has to do with a player landing on a ball and one official assuming he recovered it, when in fact he did not. REALLY a rather common occurrence. Good officials, however, will not blow that whistle unless they see ball AND possession, and not assume.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The more you talk, the more I suspect you've never been on the field or possibly even watched a game on TV. Seems to me that when a player dives on a football - MOST of the time, it squirts somewhere. Especially if that ball was still moving.

I coach. Probably the problem here is that we have in mind different standards for the control of the ball required for player possession.

If I saw a player actually fall on a ball that was on the ground, unless the player wound up with some strange part of the body like his back or his legs on top of it, I'd consider that moment of trapping of the ball between body and ground possession. I don't think it does any good for the game to encourage opposing players to pile on top in the hope that the add'l pressure will cause the ball to squirt out, or to try to fish under a player's body for the ball. If you do, then it becomes completely arbitrary as to when you kill the ball and try to determine who got control of it first. A ball sandwich -- ground, ball, frame of player -- is a bright line you can rule on, instead of the muddy line you'll probably get if you allow play to continue. Sure, you could get lucky and have it pop right into some player's hands, but the great majority of the time you'll wind up with a pileup and take a guess.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If I saw a player actually fall on a ball that was on the ground, unless the player wound up with some strange part of the body like his back or his legs on top of it, I'd consider that moment of trapping of the ball between body and ground possession.

That's not consistent with the definition and interpretation of "possession".

The ball must be held or controlled.

I've seen players trap a fumble only to knock it loose from themselves with nobody else around them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I coach. Probably the problem here is that we have in mind different standards for the control of the ball required for player possession.

And if we called possession and the ball popped out, you would be livid that did not give the ball to your team.

If I saw a player actually fall on a ball that was on the ground, unless the player wound up with some strange part of the body like his back or his legs on top of it, I'd consider that moment of trapping of the ball between body and ground possession. I don't think it does any good for the game to encourage opposing players to pile on top in the hope that the add'l pressure will cause the ball to squirt out, or to try to fish under a player's body for the ball. [/QUOTE]

Well then they need to find another sport, because that is what happens in football. Maybe wrestling would be better as you do get thrown and have another person jump on top of you. Or better yet maybe volleyball would be better as you can avoid all personal contact with another person. That is why they have pads on to protect them.

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If you do, then it becomes completely arbitrary as to when you kill the ball and try to determine who got control of it first. A ball sandwich -- ground, ball, frame of player -- is a bright line you can rule on, instead of the muddy line you'll probably get if you allow play to continue. Sure, you could get lucky and have it pop right into some player's hands, but the great majority of the time you'll wind up with a pileup and take a guess.

Yeah, I can tell you do not officiating.

Peace