Enforcement puzzle

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The correct answer has been posted in numerous formats.

1. The result of the play is a touchback.
2. B gets first choice of penalty acceptance, since they were last in possession.
3. They will accept the IF penalty, which results automatically in a double foul, and we'll replay the down.
4. If B foolishly declines the penalty for A's foul, A gets a choice and will accept the BIB penalty: 10 yards from the basic spot, which is the A20 after the touchback, so 1/10 for A from the A30.

B's foul occurred during a running play. The basic spot is the end of the run, not the touchback. The touchback is the succeeding spot which is where the ball would be next snapped if a foul had not occurred (2-41-10)

1. The result of the play is a TB.
2. B gets first choice since they got the ball with clean hands.
3. If B accepts the IF: we have a double foul.
4. If B declines the IF: we then give A their choice of accepting or declining.
5. If A accepts the IBB the foul is marked off under ABO.
6. If A declines, we have two declined fouls and the result is the TB, A gets a new series as any team does following a TB.

The only logical choice for B is to accept the IF and replay the down. 10-2-2.

[verticalStripes]

I think we almost have it.

1. The result of the play is a TB.
2. B gets first choice since they got the ball with clean hands.
3. If B accepts the IF: we have a double foul, if A accepts the BIB. Replay the down.
4. If B declines the IF: we then give A their choice of accepting or declining.
5. If A accepts the BIB the foul is marked off under ABO using the 20 yardline because the result of the play was a touchdown. However, B would get the ball 1st and 10 at the 30 because no foul causes loss of possession!
6. If A declines, we have two declined fouls and the result is the TB, A gets a new series as any team does following a TB.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by verticalStripes

3. If B accepts the IF: we have a double foul, if A accepts the BIB. Replay the down.

If B accepts the IF, we have a double foul, period. A does not get a choice in that case. 10-2-1c

[verticalStripes]

You are right mbyron, A has no choices if B accepts. It would be a double foul.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by verticalStripes

I think we almost have it.

1. The result of the play is a TB.
2. B gets first choice since they got the ball with clean hands.
3. If B accepts the IF: we have a double foul, if A accepts the BIB. Replay the down.
4. If B declines the IF: we then give A their choice of accepting or declining.
5. If A accepts the BIB the foul is marked off under ABO using the 20 yardline because the result of the play was a touchdown. However, B would get the ball 1st and 10 at the 30 because no foul causes loss of possession!
6. If A declines, we have two declined fouls and the result is the TB, A gets a new series as any team does following a TB.

You've made two mistakes. This is a play settled under 10-2-2. B got the ball with clean hands. This is nothing more than a clean hands play.

In 3., B got the ball with clean hands so they get first crack at accepting or declining the IF. If B accepts the IF, then we have a double foul, end of story. A won't get a choice. 10-2-1c. (No book, I think 10-2-1c).

In 5., that is totally wrong. What kind of play was occurring at the time of B's IBB? Was it a running play? Was it a loose ball play? You better say running play because it wasn't a loose ball play. Where is a running play enforced from? It's enforced from the end of the run, right? Where was the end of the run? It was where B fumbled. That's why you throw a bean bag. You would enforce B's IBB from the bean bag. I agree no foul causes loss of the ball. The only way A gets the ball because of the touchback is when all fouls have been declined. A would only get the ball at the A-20 if all fouls were declined. Then they would be awarded a new series.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by kdf5

In 5., that is totally wrong. What kind of play was occurring at the time of B's IBB? Was it a running play? Was it a loose ball play? You better say running play because it wasn't a loose ball play. Where is a running play enforced from? It's enforced from the end of the run, right? Where was the end of the run? It was where B fumbled. That's why you throw a bean bag. You would enforce B's IBB from the bean bag.

I think you had this right in an earlier post. While B is in possession, they are by definition the offense. The spot of their foul is behind the basic spot/end of the run (presumably), so under ABO the penalty would be enforced from the spot of the foul.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think you had this right in an earlier post. While B is in possession, they are by definition the offense. The spot of their foul is behind the basic spot/end of the run (presumably), so under ABO the penalty would be enforced from the spot of the foul.

You are right. B's foul is subject to ABO enforcement. I left that out for simplicity but you are right.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by kdf5

B's foul occurred during a running play. The basic spot is the end of the run, not the touchback. The touchback is the succeeding spot which is where the ball would be next snapped if a foul had not occurred (2-41-10)

1. The result of the play is a TB.
2. B gets first choice since they got the ball with clean hands.
3. If B accepts the IF: we have a double foul.
4. If B declines the IF: we then give A their choice of accepting or declining.
5. If A accepts the IBB the foul is marked off under ABO.
6. If A declines, we have two declined fouls and the result is the TB, A gets a new series as any team does following a TB.

The only logical choice for B is to accept the IF and replay the down. 10-2-2.

Probably depends on the position of the previous spot. Previouse down and distance might matter as well.

[kdf5]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Probably depends on the position of the previous spot. Previouse down and distance might matter as well.

I agree with that.