go slow , then slower , then slow down

[Theisey]

Originally posted by KWH
What does UIL stand for and where do I get a copy?
On line?
Thank you

It's really a Texas thing, but try this link:
http://www.uil.utexas.edu/

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by sportswriter

There's a trap here, of becoming nothing but a law-abiding arbiter without passion or feel for the game. We are human, and for eight to ten year olds, I think it is vital that we perform our fundamental role to support the game.

If I enforced the rules for first-time eight and nine-year old players, I'd be lucky if I didn't end the first quarter on the goal line, having called a hold or a illegal procedure on every play. Yet, according to the rule book, that's what I'm supposed to do. At that level, they have to play - parents, players, and coaches aren't there to see me enforce the rule book with anal precision.

Yes, a hold that affects a play gets called. But when all I see is a bunch of bobbing rears, and kids scratching their asses while they're supposed to be set, I can give that a break.

Otherwise, I'm making a travesty of the game.

Sportswriter,
I agree with you 110%! What you call "passion or feel for the game" is what I referred to earlier as "game sense". I was attacked by almost every official in this forum--got no respect. These guys are strickly by the rule book with very little "passion or feel for the game". You and I being youth officials understand how important it is to combine some game sense with your rule knowledge. Throwing a flag for every foul you see is poor officiating. I'm not suggesting we close our eyes, just let 'em play! Making the right calls or non calls during key moments of the game has everything to do with using "game sense" or "having a feel for the game" and this is important at all levels of officiating.

The running into the kicker call made by the R in the Steelers-Titans game was a bad call. Did the guy run into the kicker--yes, slightly. Should he have been penalized--no. The kicker flat out missed the field goal and the contact was not severe enough to draw a flag and give them another opportunity. In a critical situation like that, you don't want to make a questionable call to decide the game(won't find this in the rule book, check your game sense).

Guys not trying to open up an old can of worms, just my opinion.

[JMN]

Derock, I think you just cut yourself when opening that can!!

Mr. Neil, where are you??

[ABoselli]

I was attacked by almost every official in this forum--got no respect. These guys are strickly (it is strictly BTW) by the rule book with very little "passion or feel for the game". You and I being youth officials understand how important it is to combine some game sense with your rule knowledge

I think that's where the rest of us have a problem with you, Derock. Contrary to what you think, we have game sense and know the rules. You think you have game sense. I have and still officiate yutes. If a kid needs to sit, I'll tell the coach that he needs to cool down and the coach will handle it. I don't make a big production of it, just a quiet word, no sense embarrassing the kid. I enlist his teammates to help as well. I've never sent a kid off for anything other than blood or equipment and my youth games run pretty smoothly.

[mikesears]

Originally posted by Derock1986
Sportswriter,
I agree with you 110%! What you call "passion or feel for the game" is what I referred to earlier as "game sense". I was attacked by almost every official in this forum--got no respect. These guys are strickly by the rule book with very little "passion or feel for the game".[/b]

Bologna! I think a majority of the officials who post here DO have a passion and feel for the game. Yes, I've met some that don't. They are the ones who officiate by the seat of their pants. They are the ones who think game-sense ALONE will save them. They are ones who think getting the money is the most important part. They are the ones who have no idea that a forum like this even exists because they haven't looked. Even if they did know it exists, they wouldn't spend the off-season posting to a forum like this because they don't want to learn. Derock, I'm not trying to be mean, but you are bordering that line. Your only saving grace as far as I'm concerned is that you are here (and during the off-season I might add).


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Derock1986
You and I being youth officials understand how important it is to combine some game sense with your rule knowledge. Throwing a flag for every foul you see is poor officiating. I'm not suggesting we close our eyes, just let 'em play!

Agreed. In comparing you two, Sportswriter has the rules knowledge. (ba-da-dump-bump). I also agree that officiating is also about knowing when to apply the rules and when to let things go. However, you have to KNOW the rules in order to know when NOT to apply them.

Originally posted by Derock1986
Making the right calls or non calls during key moments of the game has everything to do with using "game sense" or "having a feel for the game" and this is important at all levels of officiating.

I partly agree, but I wouldn't say only during KEY MOMENTS of the game. Something I'd flag as a safety foul in the first minute should be called the same way in the last minute.

Originally posted by Derock1986
The running into the kicker call made by the R in the Steelers-Titans game was a bad call. Did the guy run into the kicker--yes, slightly. Should he have been penalized--no. The kicker flat out missed the field goal . . .

I didn't see the play so I can't comment. All I've seen is a still picture of contact. However, the fact that the field goal was missed doesn't have any bearing. The white-hat who makes that call isn't going to know if the attempt was good or not anyway. He will make the call based upon the action against the kicker. This is mechanics 101.

Originally posted by Derock1986
. . . and the contact was not severe enough to draw a flag and give them another opportunity. In a critical situation like that, you don't want to make a questionable call to decide the game(won't find this in the rule book, check your game sense).

NFL officials are told over and over not to guess. "Be sure it is a foul" is their motto. Roughing and running into fouls are SAFETY fouls and should be flagged every time - regardless of game situation. You contend that the action wasn't "running into". The R saw the play differently and he was much closer to the action. He also has to have a number of years of experience in order to even work in the NFL, let alone white-hat. I think I will defer to the NFL referee's call on this one.



The fact that the play was a "Critical Situation" isn't a factor. NFL officials are graded on every play regardless of the game situation.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

DEROCK,

Listen to yourself, you said that you wouldn't have called running into the kicker because it had no bearing on the failed kick?? are you that stupid ? Can you have running into the kicker while hes kicking the ball ? no because you'll block the kick. (most of the time)Roughing and running into the kicker Derock is called after the ball is away, just like roughing the passer. Who cares if he missed. If a passer gets roughed and the receiver drops the ball are you going to say , hell im not calling this because he dropped it.

Derock wether youre in youth ball or the NFL this was clearly running into the kicker, it doesn't matter that he did a good acting job (hell he fooled me and millions of others. You need more then game sense.

[HighSchoolWhiteHat]

Derock,

Is it your game sense thats telling you he missed so he doesn't deserve the running into the kicker penalty? What if the kick hit the uprigth and bounced down in front of the goal post? Just because it was a clear miss you use your game sense to blow a call that should be made all the time.
Lucky most youth leagues don't try field goals or extra point kicks.

[James Neil]

Sportswriter,
I agree with you 110%! What you call "passion or feel for the game" is what I referred to earlier as "game sense". I was attacked by almost every official in this forum--got no respect. These guys are strickly by the rule book with very little "passion or feel for the game". You and I being youth officials understand how important it is to combine some game sense with your rule knowledge. Throwing a flag for every foul you see is poor officiating. I'm not suggesting we close our eyes, just let 'em play! Making the right calls or non calls during key moments of the game has everything to do with using "game sense" or "having a feel for the game" and this is important at all levels of officiating.

The running into the kicker call made by the R in the Steelers-Titans game was a bad call. Did the guy run into the kicker--yes, slightly. Should he have been penalized--no. The kicker flat out missed the field goal and the contact was not severe enough to draw a flag and give them another opportunity. In a critical situation like that, you don't want to make a questionable call to decide the game(won't find this in the rule book, check your game sense).

Guys not trying to open up an old can of worms, just my opinion. [/B][/QUOTE]
Oww let me at him

Ire Rastafari Derock, I and I tink I and I’m understand dem “game sense” you’d ben taking bout. ties data deem like data sensemilla dam rastas smoke in them co-che? Bro-da, dem puff that sensemilla and come up wit the most cool running eber . Your game sense is right down that pike Derock. All based on your seedless knowledge of the rules. Got no seed in your smoke Derock The way you call your games and spout your rap , it’s quite apparent you’ve been sucking the reef a little to liberally up behind the bleachers before you go strutting your I’m in charge”-sit your *** down game senselessness up and down the field . Derock, I know this will disappoint you but guess what young man? You aren’t out there to be in charge. None of us are. We’re there to manage the game. To try to keep it safe. To try and not let either team gain an unfair advantage. We use the rules and administer them fairly and without any bias. The majority of the games I work are middle school and youth league. I’m well aware that we need to take into account the age and level of skill. I know we must use preventive officiating. I’ve been a fan for over 40 years. I played 6 years of organized ball. I’ve coached two years of football and coached in other sports. Give us a break with your "Game senselessness “the guys have heard enough of your crap and lies. We know the game you block head. Go plant next years crop and let us do this. We really want to get it right. And not for the money or the glory Derock. We do it for the love of the game!

[KWH]

Originally posted by Derock1986
...In a critical situation like that, you don't want to make a questionable call to decide the game(won't find this in the rule book, check your game sense).

In most 7 man mechanic's that I am familiar with the FJ and BJ rule on the kick.
I am curious in Modifiied/Maryland/DeRock/45min/PEWWEE/Bantam/HERD BALL/Game Sense league, is the correct mechanic for the white hat to give up action around the kicker and watch the flight of the ball, rule on the kick, and then and only then (based on the results of the kick) decide on whether the action around the kicker warrants a flag?
If that is the case we are doing it wrong here, because around here the White Hat stays with the kicker until the play is over.

Two more questions for you DeRock:
1) Can I get a copy of your 7-Man mechanics? How 'bout your 3-Man mechanics and responsibilities of the LJ?
2) How many 7 man mechanics games have you worked?

[JMN]

Hey KWH,

Thank you for clarifying the modified Maryland rule book for us heathen officials.

Heck, we don't work 7 man, but I can see the benefit of the R being in charge of watching the ball instead of the kicker. Then, he won't have to make the tough calls involving judgement and can just decide on fouls based on the result of the play and his acute game sense.

In fact, let's petition the league to do away with ALL JUDGEMENT CALLS! (I bet I know who would be the first to sign the petition). That's what causes most of the controversy in the NFL, and even our boy Derock (the Dalai Lama of Officials, "DLO") maintains that we get most of the judgement calls wrong because we are too ignorant to apply any game sense (you know, we're so rule bound).

Better yet, let's toss the whole damn rule book out.

Hey, I think he's converted me!! I see the light!! Football anarchy!! Let the players and coaches do what they want, no fouls, no flags, no score, everyone leaves happy.

I would like to chat more, but I need to go burn my rule book, reset my watch for 45 minute youth games, and to point east and worship at the altar of the exalted Dalai Lama of Officials!!!! Hail to the enlightened conciusness of the DLO!

[bigwhistle]

I am not sure what the 3 person mechanic for NF are, but when we are doing 3 person on a short FG attempt, the U has responsibility for one upright and the crossbar. The R has the responsibility for the ball getting away cleanly and then the other upright. The L has the responsibility of protecting the kicker and holder.

BTW, I thought the call made by Blum was correct.

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by HighSchoolWhiteHat

it doesn't matter that he did a good acting job (hell he fooled me and millions of others. You need more then game sense.

I don't know about you but to "fool" someone is a false sense of the truth. If you were "fooled" then what you think you saw is not what really happened. If what you think you saw didn't really happen, then how valid is that flag that was thrown?

[Derock1986]

Originally posted by HighSchoolWhiteHat


Derock,

Is it your game sense thats telling you he missed so he doesn't deserve the running into the kicker penalty? What if the kick hit the uprigth and bounced down in front of the goal post? Just because it was a clear miss you use your game sense to blow a call that should be made all the time.
Lucky most youth leagues don't try field goals or extra point kicks.

The missed field goal is relative to the call because it gives Nedney a motive for performing his act. The R should have been looking for Nedney to try and bait him into a call--Nedney knew he missed the FG and was looking/hoping he could draw a flag and get another attempt.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Derock1986

The missed field goal is relative to the call because it gives Nedney a motive for performing his act. The R should have been looking for Nedney to try and bait him into a call--Nedney knew he missed the FG and was looking/hoping he could draw a flag and get another attempt. [/B]

Wow... you defiantly got da kind bro! Now I see why you stick with the youth league that pays you so well to play in their games. You need the "big bucks" to pay for that game sensemilla you been smoken. I hear the regular sensemilla is pretty spendy, But this game stuff must cost you a bundle. This last post of yours is yet another classic example of how strong this s#%t can get. Hey let me ask you something, do you share your game sensemilla with your crew or are you a bogart?

[KWH]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Derock1986

The missed field goal is relative to the call because it gives Nedney a motive for performing his act. The R should have been looking for Nedney to try and bait him into a call--Nedney knew he missed the FG and was looking/hoping he could draw a flag and get another attempt.

This DeRock is a phony! He is not a football official!
I suggest we just quit responding to this ignoramus and maybe he will just go away!
Kinda like yesterdays garbage!