NFL Playoff OT Scenarios

[umpire99]

The Flem File breaks down the NFL's new overtime rule - ESPN

Has anybody read this article? I know it was written for humor, but it does show the confusion in the new playoff OT rules.

I have a suggestion: Put 15 minutes on the clock. Play it like a new quarter for the entire 15 minutes. If someone leads after 15 minutes expire, do it all over again. If this went on long enough, coaches would start taking chances and we might see some really entertaining football.

[bisonlj]

It actually clarified it a lot for me. Until I read it I hadn't considered things like muffed or fumbled punts or onside kicks. I kind of like this format but we'll have to see how it plays out.

[jTheUmp]

By my count, 7 of the 19 scenarios presented are things that would be unchanged from the regular-season OT rule, and an additional scenario (#19) is unchanged from the previous playoff OT rule.

So there's a bit of exaggeration for effect going on.

I wonder what the NFL's casebook (or whatever equivalent they have) has listed for playoff OT cases.

[starman]

Here is one interesting case that I was considering....

The score is 0-0 going into OT.
Team A kicks a field goal on the first possession. The score is now 3-0.
Team B drives down the field to team A's 1-yard line.
Team B fumbles and the ball and the ball is nearly at rest on the 1 yard line.
Team A bats the ball into and out of its own end zone.
This would be a safety for team B.
I think that the game would then be over and Team A would the game 3-2.

[football-1]

intersting spin to the new rule.


Team with first kickoff should always try onside kick.

successful - of course only need FG for win

unsuccessful - the other team can score FG
you still get the ball for one possession and you have always 4 downs to convert on that drive.


loophole ?
but of course if the other team scores a TD -> game over.

[Robert Goodman]

What happens if, following the OT kickoff (either K or R recovering) and no further change of possession, a safety is scored? Does the team that scored the safety need to gain possession of the ball for the game to end?

Or: Team B leads 3-0 in OT with team A scrimmaging 4th down and 8 to go at B's 30. B1 is offside and A1's FG attempt is deflected and rolling at B's 27. B2 muffs the ball and A2 recovers there and is down, with B2's touch being ruled to have occurred beyond whatever neutral zone the NFL allows. Does A have to accept the penalty to keep the game going, or can they take the recovery as still part of their team possession?

Here's another: On the opening drive, A1's FG attempt is first touched by B1 clearly beyond the neutral zone and recovered by A2. Without losing team possession, A eventually makes a FG. Game over?

[starman]

To answer you first question, I heard several sources report that overtime ends on a TD or a safety. Regardless of possession opportunities.

[Robert Goodman]

Suppose OT scores are tied 3-3, or even 0-0, and 2 OT quarters have been played. After the KO to start the 3rd period, can you win by sudden death with a FG on the 1st possession, or does it revert to the situation at the start of OT?

Another thing I wonder about this "opportunity" Flem mentions: If at some point team possession of the ball depends on whether a penalty is enforced or declined, does that choice in and of iitself constitute an "opportunity" a team had to possess the ball?

[rulesmaven]

Any score that is not a field goal ends the game immediately -- TD, safety, or points awarded for palpably unfair act. You don't need to get into possession or the details of the rule if any of that occurs.

Otherwise, I think the NFL has answered pretty much all the scenarios one can think of in their recent guidance on the issue. Here's the link: NFL.com news: Postseason overtime rules. Basically, the trickiest plays are kicks and muffs. A muff does not constitute possession, but it does constitute an opportuntity for possession if it's the receiving team. I think the blocked punt on first possession scenarios and explanations go a long way to toward understanding the entire rule:

A.R. 16.11 BLOCKED PUNT
Fourth-and-5 on A45. On the opening possession of overtime, Team A's punt is blocked by B3 at the A35. The ball hits the ground beyond the line at the B48 and bounces back to the A43 where it is recovered by A4 who runs to the B40 for a first down.
Ruling: A's ball, first-and-10 on B40. Team B is not considered to have had an opportunity to possess the ball because it did not touch the ball beyond the line of scrimmage.

A.R. 16.12 BLOCKED PUNT
Fourth-and-5 on A45. On the opening possession of overtime, Team A's punt is blocked by B3 at the A35. The ball bounces beyond the line to the A48, where B4 muffs the loose ball to the A45 where it is recovered by A4.
Ruling: A's ball, first-and-10 on A45. By touching the punt beyond the line of scrimmage, a new series is awarded to Team A. Since Team B had the opportunity to possess the ball, both teams have met the minimum requirements for possession.

In my view, they've created a problem worse than they had in the first place. The rule was, as I understand it, based on a perception that the team that gets the ball wins too often. If think if you could have lots of experience with the new rule, it would be revealed that the kicking team will win more.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by rulesmaven

Otherwise, I think the NFL has answered pretty much all the scenarios one can think of in their recent guidance on the issue. Here's the link: [url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d817d7/article/postseason-overtime-rules]

If they have, they sure haven't done it well. Looking at those A.R.s, any of us could reverse engr. rules that are clearer than the rule given at the top -- if indeed that is the official rule (which must be Rule 16). I'd never get A.R. 16.19 from that Rule 16.

I'm going to guess that "opportunity to possess" is judged only after enforcements, not while they're pending. Therefore if team B accepts a penalty instead of taking the result of a play that would have left them in possession of the ball, that their chance to decline it is not such an "opportunity", and that their possession that was canceled by penalty enforcement did not count. Similarly if team A accepts a penalty whose declination would've resulted in possession by their opponents. And same regarding downs that are replayed due to fouls against both teams. But that's just a guess, figuring it's "the right thing".

[rulesmaven]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If they have, they sure haven't done it well.

That's not the rule. The actual text of the rule follows. To answer the question whether the chance to have had the ball but for a non-enforced penalty is the "opportunity to possess," it is not. According to the rule, "[t]he opportunity to possess applies only during kicking plays." Otherwise, you default to definition of "possession," which is "firm grip and control." An an unenforced penalty that could have given you possession, you never had actual possession and it wasn't a kicking play -- although I guess one could manage a hypothetical in which the penalty enforcement issue arose on a punt. Otherwise, I think the ARs are pretty good at covering all the bases. Anyway, here's the text of Rule 16, Sec. 1, Art. 4:

Article 4 For postseason games, following a coin flip (Article 2 above) and an intermission
of no more than three minutes after the end of the regular game, the following shall
apply:
(a) Both teams must have the opportunity to possess the ball once during the extra period,
unless the team that receives the opening kickoff (Team B) scores a touchdown
on its initial possession, in which case it is the winner, or Team A scores a
safety on Team B’s initial possession, in which case Team A is the winner.
(b) If the team that possesses the ball first scores a field goal on its initial possession,
the other team (Team A) shall have the opportunity to possess the ball. If Team A
scores a touchdown on its possession, it is the winner. If the score is tied after Team
A’s possession, the team next scoring by any method shall be the winner.
(c) If the score is tied at the end of a 15-minute overtime period, or if Team B’s initial
possession has not ended, another overtime period will begin, and play will con -
tinue, regardless of how many 15-minute periods are necessary.
(d) Between each overtime period, there shall be a two-minute intermission, but there
shall be no halftime intermission after the second period. At the beginning of the
third overtime period, the captain who lost the coin toss prior to the first overtime
period shall have the first choice of the two privileges in Rule 4, Section 2, Article 2,
unless the team that won the coin toss deferred.
(e) At the end of the first and third extra periods, etc., teams must change goals in accordance
with Rule 4, Section 2, Article 3.
(f) A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds
(3-2-7). The defense gains possession when it catches, intercepts, or recovers a
loose ball.
(g) The opportunity to possess applies only during kicking plays. A kickoff is the opportunity
to possess for the receiving team. If the kicking team legally recovers the
kick, the receiving team is considered to have had its opportunity. A punt or field
goal that crosses the line of scrimmage and is muffed by the receiving team is considered
to be an opportunity to possess for the receiving team. Normal touching
rules by the kicking team apply.
(h) Each team is entitled to three timeouts during a half. If there is an excess timeout
the usual rules shall apply (4-5).
(i) At the end of a second overtime period, timing rules shall apply as at the end of the
first half. At the end of a fourth overtime period, timing rules shall apply as at the end
of the fourth quarter.
(j) All replay reviews will be initiated by the replay assistant. Coaches’ challenges will
not be allowed.

[Robert Goodman]

OK, that's better. But here's one that would play out "funny": K's opening kickoff gets blown back and goes out of bounds thru K's end zone. Team R scores 2 pts. and K gets another free kick without having had a possession or opp'ty to possess the ball. But R has had their opp'ty.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by starman

Here is one interesting case that I was considering....

The score is 0-0 going into OT.
Team A kicks a field goal on the first possession. The score is now 3-0.
Team B drives down the field to team A's 1-yard line.
Team B fumbles and the ball and the ball is nearly at rest on the 1 yard line.
Team A bats the ball into and out of its own end zone.
This would be a safety for team B.
I think that the game would then be over and Team A would the game 3-2.

So B shouldn't have fumbled.

[jchamp]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

OK, that's better. But here's one that would play out "funny": K's opening kickoff gets blown back and goes out of bounds thru K's end zone. Team R scores 2 pts. and K gets another free kick without having had a possession or opp'ty to possess the ball. But R has had their opp'ty.

Almost. But as Rulesmaven says a few posts above, any score that is not a field goal ends the game. Team R wins by 2 due to an Act of God.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jchamp

Almost. But as Rulesmaven says a few posts above, any score that is not a field goal ends the game. Team R wins by 2 due to an Act of God.

But look at rulesmaven's most recent post. He says that's the official wording, 16-1-4, and you can look high and low for word that a safety ends it by sudden death notwithstanding the possession business, which I'm now taking to have been rumor disconfirmed by this actual wording. In most cases a safety would win, but apparently not if the opening kickoff (original or repeated following penalty) got blown back (or had extremely wicked backspin) for a safety.