Two scenarios

[jking_94577]

Scenario 1:
A player is dribbling the ball. He then comes to a stop and tries to catch the ball with both hands. The ball is touched by both hands but is not controlled. The ball then falls to the ground. Can the player retrieve the ball and if so can he advance it?

Scenario 2:
A player is dribbling the ball. He then comes to a stop and catches the ball with both hands. He tries to then pass the ball but in the middle of the passing motion he decides to stop. When he tries to stop the passing motion, the ball is no longer in his grasp and is in contact with neither hand. If he catches the ball in midair, is this a violation? If the ball falls to the ground, can the player retrieve it? After he retrieves it can he advance it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by jking_94577
Scenario 1:
A player is dribbling the ball. He then comes to a stop and tries to catch the ball with both hands. The ball is touched by both hands but is not controlled. The ball then falls to the ground. Can the player retrieve the ball and if so can he advance it?

Scenario 2:
A player is dribbling the ball. He then comes to a stop and catches the ball with both hands. He tries to then pass the ball but in the middle of the passing motion he decides to stop. When he tries to stop the passing motion, the ball is no longer in his grasp and is in contact with neither hand. If he catches the ball in midair, is this a violation? If the ball falls to the ground, can the player retrieve it? After he retrieves it can he advance it?

1) The player can recover their own fumble but they can't dribble again. The dribble ended when the dribbler touched it with both hands.

2) Again, he can catch his fumble in the air or retrieve it after it hit the court, but he can't dribble again.

[jking_94577]

I was wondering on scenario 2 that the ball which is caught in midair could be interpreted as a pass to oneself which is illegal (btw do you know the rule reference for that). So it is up to the referee to interpret if the loss of control of the ball was intentional or non-intentional. If it was intentional it was a pass to yourself and if it was unintentional then this is a fumble right?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by jking_94577
I was wondering on scenario 2 that the ball which is caught in midair could be interpreted as a pass to oneself which is illegal (btw do you know the rule reference for that). So it is up to the referee to interpret if the loss of control of the ball was intentional or non-intentional. If it was intentional it was a pass to yourself and if it was unintentional then this is a fumble right?

See case book plays 4.15.4SitD(d) and 4.15.4SitE.

The official has to determine whether a pass or fumble has occured. Forget about "intentional" and "unintentional". We ain't mind readers.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Mar 11th, 2005 at 02:05 PM]

[Bart Tyson]

You may fumble, dribble, fumble. But, you may not drible, fumble, drible. When a player is attempting a pass and fumbles in the middle of the pass, then yes the same player may retrieve it. Having said this, it will have to be very clear to everyone that it is a fumble. Everything being epual in the game, if it is borderline between a fumble or bad pass, then I will error on the side of violation.

[Hartsy]

Originally posted by jking_94577
I was wondering on scenario 2 that the ball which is caught in midair could be interpreted as a pass to oneself which is illegal (btw do you know the rule reference for that).

As long as the player is standing still or keeping a pivot foot, I wouldn't consider it as being a pass to oneself. I suppose you could, but isn't the rule intended to prevent someone from gaining possesion of the ball in a different location and thereby gaining soem sort of advantage?

In both cases, however, the ball can not be advanced, as has been said. Beginning another dribble is illegal.

[Camron Rust]

There is no such thing as a pass to oneself.

When the ball leaves the grasp of a players hands and he touches it before another player touches it, it is only one of three things: dribble, shot, or fumble. No other choices.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
There is no such thing as a pass to oneself.

When the ball leaves the grasp of a players hands and he touches it before another player touches it, it is only one of three things: dribble, shot, or fumble. No other choices.

What if a player throws the ball in the air (but not for a try), takes several steps, and catches the ball before it hits the court? I believe this is neither a dribble, nor a shot, nor a fumble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Lotto

What if a player throws the ball in the air (but not for a try), takes several steps, and catches the ball before it hits the court? I believe this is neither a dribble, nor a shot, nor a fumble.

Yup, add a fourth choice--traveling.