Sugar Bowl Safety

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would have also probably ruled the play down in the field of play as well, but I doubt I would have had a whistle. But that is why it is a judgment call and has nothing to do with the officials and their stature. We all just do not have the same judgment.

Peace

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I'm still trying to understand this statement. In it you state you probably would have ruled progress stopped but would not have a whistle. So how far back do you allow them to be pushed before you blow the whistle? Do they actually have to be tackled? How do you indicate you have progressed stopped and the ball is now dead to everyone there that is the judgement call you are making? Or do you ever blow the whistle because they are just supposed to figure it out and then see where you happend to be standing?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What would you do at anytime a defensive player lets go of a player with the ball on purpose?

Peace

Call obstruction, but then I call a different game.
________
Effects of zoloft

[parepat]

Tressell (or Cooper) was trying to challenge. I'd assume the U was telling him he couldn't.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I know that the spot is reviewable, but you're saying whether or not a player's forward progress was stopped is now reviewable in the NFL? For example, a coach could challenge when a RB fumbles that his forward progress had been stopped and actually win that challenge?

If the issue is you have a safety or not, you can review that. Does that mean the call on the field will change? I am not sure, but they can review it. If they do for plays where a first down is in place, I think they can do that here.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

And likewise they could have reviewed this play and potentially ruled on review that his forward progress was stopped at the 2 and spotted the ball there?

I do not think I said anything different than this.

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'd say he should figure into it more than the R, but that's where he went for help. On the other hand, maybe he just forgot where they were going for drinks afterward and wanted reminding.

Official confer on many things during these sitaution especially when points are at issue. I do not see why this different than many other situations in the game. Officials confer a lot on scoring plays when there are multiple coverage on the play.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I'm still trying to understand this statement. In it you state you probably would have ruled progress stopped but would not have a whistle. So how far back do you allow them to be pushed before you blow the whistle? Do they actually have to be tackled? How do you indicate you have progressed stopped and the ball is now dead to everyone there that is the judgement call you are making? Or do you ever blow the whistle because they are just supposed to figure it out and then see where you happend to be standing?

Then do this, chalk it up to I do not feel the whistle is that important and your life apparently depends on if you hit the whistle or not. If I have progress stopped at a place, I mark that spot where FP is stopped in my judgment. You need a whistle to do that? So if the whistle is not blown when you like I cannot mark the spot I have judged at that place whether it is a safety or a TD, the whistle has to be blown?

Peace

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then do this, chalk it up to I do not feel the whistle is that important and your life apparently depends on if you hit the whistle or not. If I have progress stopped at a place, I mark that spot where FP is stopped in my judgment. You need a whistle to do that? So if the whistle is not blown when you like I cannot mark the spot I have judged at that place whether it is a safety or a TD, the whistle has to be blown?

Peace

My life does not depend on a whistle, and this attempt at....what....I can't fathom other than some childish attempt to deflect the question. Or maybe you can't help being an insultive ***, I'm not sure which. But if you say you can stand there and mark a forward progress spot while the pile is getting pushed backwards and have no need to indicate the play is over is quite simply about one of the worst officiating ideas I have ever heard. You keep trying to redirect the question to just the spot which only causes me to suspect doing half your job is good enough for you.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Mike L

My life does not depend on a whistle, and this attempt at....what....I can't fathom other than some childish attempt to deflect the question.

I answered your question. You just do not seem to like the answer. I have said this before and I will say this again, do what works for you. I will do what works for me.

Originally Posted by Mike L

Or maybe you can't help being an insultive ***, I'm not sure which.

Oh brother……. Did I not say in my games this year on my regular crew we had several moments when a play was ruled down and no whistle from the 5 officials anywhere on the field. Not our two the two wings, not our umpire or me that is the back judge felt compelled to blow a whistle and somehow no major discussion was had and we marked a spot. And if we talk about scoring plays I am sure it happen more or the whistle was not blown at all as well. And for the record I have worked 15 years and I am the youngest on the crew as it relates to years and even experience. I guess they are wrong too according to you and somehow we did not need to discuss the spot in great detail.

Originally Posted by Mike L

But if you say you can stand there and mark a forward progress spot while the pile is getting pushed backwards and have no need to indicate the play is over is quite simply about one of the worst officiating ideas I have ever heard. You keep trying to redirect the question to just the spot which only causes me to suspect doing half your job is good enough for you.

Do not twist my words. I did not say you never blow the whistle, I said that the spot is not going to change because of the whistle. The play is dead before the whistle is blown. The whistle is just going to stop everyone else if possible, but that does not always happen.

This is clearly on page 79 of the NF rulebook and a Fundamental under Dead Ball the first one:

"An official's whistle seldom kills the ball. It is already dead by rule."

Not sure how many ways I can answer that question for you.

And unless I am on trial for something I do not have to answer the way you like. Even then I do not have to answer as you like as the answer is clear.

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by ajmc

What struck me as most significant about this play, was that the Referee and Wing official, immediately got together to confirm what each had seen and only then was a decision made and a non-hesitant signal given.

Apparently, both agreed that the play was still alive when the ball was fumbled. As both seemed to be in proper position to make a call (from opposite directions) their confirming each other's perspective seems like excellent and appropriate mechanics.

What am I missing? What fumble?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by waltjp

What am I missing? What fumble?

You don't see a fumble? What play are you watching?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And one thing non-football officials need to understand, the whistle means little or nothing to this play.

It would have meant everything if the whistle had blown when forward progress was stopped.

peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

You don't see a fumble? What play are you watching?

After reading some of these replies I wonder if I was watching the right game.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by waltjp

After reading some of these replies I wonder if I was watching the right game.

Perhaps you were actually watching the Tidy Bowl?

[Coach Jinx]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If the issue is you have a safety or not, you can review that. Does that mean the call on the field will change? I am not sure, but they can review it. If they do for plays where a first down is in place, I think they can do that here.



I do not think I said anything different than this.



Official confer on many things during these sitaution especially when points are at issue. I do not see why this different than many other situations in the game. Officials confer a lot on scoring plays when there are multiple coverage on the play.

Peace

you cant review if forward progress was stopped & then pushed backward, you could review if someone got in or our of the ez but not forward progress in a pile and a fumble or a situation like this. Back to something you said earlier. Closer wing has a guy in the ez for a td, further wing has a knee down & a bounce in. You dont talk about that? It was not the best call, most agree on that. The wing runnin in at the 2 I thought was something they would talk about in the locker room. I dont think anyone thinks the wing that called was a 100% sure what he had.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX2zq_8VZcY about 11:35 on the clip

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Jinx

you cant review if forward progress was stopped & then pushed backward, you could review if someone got in or our of the ez but not forward progress in a pile and a fumble or a situation like this. Back to something you said earlier. Closer wing has a guy in the ez for a td, further wing has a knee down & a bounce in. You dont talk about that? It was not the best call, most agree on that. The wing runnin in at the 2 I thought was something they would talk about in the locker room. I dont think anyone thinks the wing that called was a 100% sure what he had.

I believe in trusting my partner and I believe that someone across the field is not going to have a better angle than an official standing all on top of the play at least on a play like this. You can talk about anything you want, but I do not see official talk when they have the ball in the EZ during normal play so why would there be talk in this situation as you suggest. This is not a pass play and even those we do not talk, we might make eye contact, but we do not talk and go over all the situations, we make a call.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I believe in trusting my partner and I believe that someone across the field is not going to have a better angle than an official standing all on top of the play at least on a play like this. You can talk about anything you want, but I do not see official talk when they have the ball in the EZ during normal play so why would there be talk in this situation as you suggest. This is not a pass play and even those we do not talk, we might make eye contact, but we do not talk and go over all the situations, we make a call.

Peace

Certainly you've heard of cross-field mechanics? The far wing *frequently* gets the progress spot of a player stopped in bounds. Matter of fact, that wing has a far easier time since he doesn't have to worry about bodies coming at him.