Rule Reference Question - OPI on try

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mike L

I'd just say read rule 8-3 which gives all the possibilities of what to do with a successful or unsuccessful try. Carrying over an OPI penalty to the kick off is not one of the options.

As for OPI, my opinion is just make it a 5 yd with LOD, just like all the other LOD A fouls.

Make it a 15 yard, repeat the down foul. That way, if the pass is incomplete the offense doesn't get penalized twice and the defense actually has to make a choice.

[bkdow]

Why would you give a team a second chance to be successful on a play where they were the ones to potentially take the ball out of the other team's hands? What if the OPI (not on a try) was the only reason the defense didn't intercept and run for a touchdown.

You now want to just mark of 15 and give them another chance to replay the down that they screwed up in the first place? IMHO, I think this is a great enforcement of an OPI. I would agree with shortening the distance but they should always lose the down.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bkdow

Why would you give a team a second chance to be successful on a play where they were the ones to potentially take the ball out of the other team's hands? What if the OPI (not on a try) was the only reason the defense didn't intercept and run for a touchdown.

You now want to just mark of 15 and give them another chance to replay the down that they screwed up in the first place? IMHO, I think this is a great enforcement of an OPI. I would agree with shortening the distance but they should always lose the down.

If the pass is incomplete, then they can either back them up yardage and replay the down or decline the penalty and the down counts with no yardage. Why should they get *both*?

Assuming a pick-six is as unrealistic as me saying that a holding penalty kept a defender from stripping a ball and returning the fumble for a TD.

[MD Longhorn]

There should be a difference between OPI that is merely blocking downfield, and OPI that potentially prevents an interception. Seems the former should be penalized much less severely (15 and replay or 5 and LOD both make sense to me), but the latter is penalized harshly and correctly.

[Mike L]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the pass is incomplete, then they can either back them up yardage and replay the down or decline the penalty and the down counts with no yardage. Why should they get *both*?

Assuming a pick-six is as unrealistic as me saying that a holding penalty kept a defender from stripping a ball and returning the fumble for a TD.

Are you willing to make the same argument for all the other LOD fouls too?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mike L

Are you willing to make the same argument for all the other LOD fouls too?

Nope. Those are different kind of fouls.

[ppaltice]

I agree with Rich that OPI's penalty in NFHS is quite harsh. I would rather see it lose the LOD aspect (akin to other rule sets).

Also harsh is the hold behind the LOS (or fouls by A). I would not be surprised if these rules are revised in the future.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

I agree with Rich that OPI's penalty in NFHS is quite harsh. I would rather see it lose the LOD aspect (akin to other rule sets).

Also harsh is the hold behind the LOS (or fouls by A). I would not be surprised if these rules are revised in the future.

This is another foul I'd love to them to visit. A hold 5-6 yards behind the line is almost a guaranteed punt where I work. Previous spot, as in the NCAA/NFL is a much better way of not giving the double whammy to a team.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This is another foul I'd love to them to visit. A hold 5-6 yards behind the line is almost a guaranteed punt where I work. Previous spot, as in the NCAA/NFL is a much better way of not giving the double whammy to a team.

It isn't a double whammy, the down is replayed. If there wasn't a hold then the defense could have tackled the QB for a 9-10 yard loss.

Currently it would be 1st and 25-26 with the hold, or 2nd and 19-20 without the hold.

Your change would be 1st and 20 with the hold, 2nd and 19-20 without the hold. Basically the ball will be in the same spot. The offense is gaining an advantage by fouling. If a guy is going to get a sack it is better for the offense to just hold him so that the down will be repeated.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Cobra

It isn't a double whammy, the down is replayed. If there wasn't a hold then the defense could have tackled the QB for a 9-10 yard loss.

Currently it would be 1st and 25-26 with the hold, or 2nd and 19-20 without the hold.

Your change would be 1st and 20 with the hold, 2nd and 19-20 without the hold. Basically the ball will be in the same spot. The offense is gaining an advantage by fouling. If a guy is going to get a sack it is better for the offense to just hold him so that the down will be repeated.

It doesn't necessarily hold that the defender is going to get a sack on the play.

Besides, if it's 2nd and 19 it makes sense for the defense to decline the penalty. If the player is brought down 9 yards behind the line of scrimmage, why tack a hold on top of it?

Finally, previous spot enforcement works well in the other codes. 1st and 26 just means a punt in most HS games. It's too punitive. I don't expect everyone to agree, certainly, but it's just something I've thought for some time.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

If the pass is incomplete, then they can either back them up yardage and replay the down or decline the penalty and the down counts with no yardage. Why should they get *both*?

Assuming a pick-six is as unrealistic as me saying that a holding penalty kept a defender from stripping a ball and returning the fumble for a TD.

Yes, assuming a pick-six is unrealistic -- but assuming a pick is realistic, if it's the type of interference that occurs during the pass. I don't think it was ever the rule in Fed, but for a while in NCAA it was loss of ball.

[Robert Goodman]

And I say make PI during the pass first down to the nonoffending team at the spot of the foul. OPI before the pass, just LOD, previous spot.