12 players on the field after a timeout

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

Sure, no problem.

Thanks!!!

*3.7.1 SITUATION B: A number of team substitutes enter the field between
downs. The officials do not recognize that one replaced player does not leave the field within three seconds.

Therein lies the rub. Substitute and replaced player have specific definitions. This applies to normal between-play action. This would not apply on the first play of a half, or after a COP or Timeout. There are no substitutes; no "replaced players" in the OP.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Thanks!!!
Therein lies the rub. Substitute and replaced player have specific definitions. This applies to normal between-play action. This would not apply on the first play of a half, or after a COP or Timeout. There are no substitutes; no "replaced players" in the OP.

Every substitution occurs between downs, and every substitution involves substitutes and replaced players. I don't see anything that excepts COP or time-outs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Every substitution occurs between downs, and every substitution involves substitutes and replaced players. I don't see anything that excepts COP or time-outs.

If this rule is meant to be applied during timeouts, it's the first I've heard of it. Surely we're not watching players entering the field during a time out and counting to 3. The players that come on the field after a timeout are not replacing anyone. That is the main difference between this situation and the normal between-play substitution.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If this rule is meant to be applied during timeouts, it's the first I've heard of it. Surely we're not watching players entering the field during a time out and counting to 3.

Exactly what I said in post 23. But I don't see anything that restricts the scope of 3-7-1.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The players that come on the field after a timeout are not replacing anyone. That is the main difference between this situation and the normal between-play substitution.

You can't have a substitution without substitutes and replaced players. During a time-out we don't pay attention to that, but it's still a substitution.

[MD Longhorn]

I do see your point. Time to re-crack open my book.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I do see your point. Time to re-crack open my book.

Eh. You use only NCAA, right? I doubt they have this problem, which isn't terribly serious because nobody (well, nobody I know) would ever call a dead-ball IS in the middle of a time-out.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Eh. You use only NCAA, right? I doubt they have this problem, which isn't terribly serious because nobody (well, nobody I know) would ever call a dead-ball IS in the middle of a time-out.

Yes... but due to the unfriendly and unhelpful responses from one member, I bothered to have someone send me last year's FED book.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Thanks!!!
Therein lies the rub. Substitute and replaced player have specific definitions. This applies to normal between-play action. This would not apply on the first play of a half, or after a COP or Timeout. There are no substitutes; no "replaced players" in the OP.

Let's go back to the comment in the FED casebook for just a moment:
COMMENT: In a related situation, if the covering official’s count of players has determined there are more than 11 prior to the snap, a dead-ball illegal substitution foul should be charged since a replaced player(s) did not leave within three seconds.

I don't see why this would not apply to any of the situations you suggest, but let's use the TO as an example, since it's listed. Assuming team A had 11 before the TO, it's not much of a stretch to consider that A12 is a substitute after the TO in the same way he would be considered such "during the normal between play action." Nothing in the rule suggests that the interval between downs cannot include a TO. So, according to this caseplay, if after a TO 12 players come onto the field, nobody tries to leave, then after 3 seconds we are supposed to blow it dead, throw a flag for dead-ball, IS. Granted, the RFP designation was given to us before they put in the 3-second stipulation, so I'll withdraw the RFP comment and stick with the 3-second timeframe, but still, I've got dead-ball IS and not "allow the play to happen and call IP."