4 players on the court after a timeout

[ATXCoach]

Was watching a middle school girls game where one team came out of a timeout with only 4 players on the floor and play began. When the mistake was relized, the 5th player sprang from the bench and entered the game.

Simply for my own understanding so that I am clear - the 5th player first must report to the scorer's table and wait for a dead ball to enter or else it is a T against the coach. Correct?

[mj]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

Was watching a middle school girls game where one team came out of a timeout with only 4 players on the floor and play began. When the mistake was relized, the 5th player sprang from the bench and entered the game.

Simply for my own understanding so that I am clear - the 5th player first must report to the scorer's table and wait for a dead ball to enter or else it is a T against the coach. Correct?

Correct. He can also take a timeout and have the 5th player enter then.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by ATXCoach

Was watching a middle school girls game where one team came out of a timeout with only 4 players on the floor and play began. When the mistake was relized, the 5th player sprang from the bench and entered the game.

Simply for my own understanding so that I am clear - the 5th player first must report to the scorer's table and wait for a dead ball to enter or else it is a T against the coach. Correct?

Correct.

Happened to me this year, it was an underclass game our assignor needed help on and my partner who is up the food chain on me, thought I was wrong. He still hasn't admitted I was correct in my ruling

[Vinski]

10-1-9 States that we have a team technical foul whether the 5th player reports to the table or not.

A team shall not:
ART. 9 . . . Fail to have all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission.
PENALTY: (Section 1) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.

[Ed Maeder]

Just to clarify this is a team tech, which is added to the team total but not charged to the coach or player.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by fullor30

Correct.

Happened to me this year, it was an underclass game our assignor needed help on and my partner who is up the food chain on me, thought I was wrong. He still hasn't admitted I was correct in my ruling

That's nothing -- my association exec (I dont want to state his actual title because it will be so much worse) -- told me we shoot free throws on Team Control fouls....

Looks like I did it wrong and my rating should fall....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Vinski

10-1-9 States that we have a team technical foul whether the 5th player reports to the table or not.
A team shall not:
ART. 9 . . . Fail to have all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission.
PENALTY: (Section 1) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in.

Vinski: Good point.

[bigdog5142]

I think you guys are making a good point about 10-1-9, but I think we're missing the SPIRIT of the rule here. IMO, the rule was made in order to prevent a coach from not sending all of his players onto the court at the same time after a TO or intermission to instruct his/her players, thus gaining an advantage. The coach/player that FORGETS to return to the floor is not gaining an advantage. HOWEVER, if that player just runs onto the court without proper substitution protocol...it should be a T. Just my $.02.

[kmw]

addresses this it is 10.3.3 Situation B

After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both Team A and B, A5 goes to the bench and remains there, mistakenly believing that he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though Team A only has four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes that they only have 4 players. The coach yells for A5 to return and he/she sprints directly onto the court and catches up with the play. RULING: No technical foul is charged to A5. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by kmw

addresses this it is 10.3.3 Situation B

After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both Team A and B, A5 goes to the bench and remains there, mistakenly believing that he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though Team A only has four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes that they only have 4 players. The coach yells for A5 to return and he/she sprints directly onto the court and catches up with the play. RULING: No technical foul is charged to A5. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.

This case play involves a substitution process, and a player who didn't know she wasn't being subbed for. I wonder if that's different from a sitch after a TO when someone who should have been subbing in didn't. Because section 10-2 of the rule book talks about this type (but not quite the same) of sitch under the heading "Substitute Technical".

Now I"m wondering, if I'm reffing, I see a player suddenly rush onto the court, do I have to stop and think about whether or not it's a sub? Whether or not she was on the floor previously? Run through player numbers in my head? What to do?? What to do???

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by kmw

addresses this it is 10.3.3 Situation B

After a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both Team A and B, A5 goes to the bench and remains there, mistakenly believing that he/she has been replaced. The ball is put in play even though Team A only has four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes that they only have 4 players. The coach yells for A5 to return and he/she sprints directly onto the court and catches up with the play. RULING: No technical foul is charged to A5. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.

Different situation, a lengthy sub process is not the same as coming out of a timeout.

[BktBallRef]

2007-2008 NFHS Basketball Interps

SITUATION 12: Following a (a) charged time-out; or (b) a lengthy substitution process involving multiple substitutions for both teams, A5 goes to the bench and remains there mistakenly believing he/she has been replaced by a substitute. The ball is put in play even though Team A has only four players on the court. Team A is bringing the ball into A's frontcourt when the coach of Team A realizes they have only four players. The coach yells for A5 to return, and he/she sprints onto the court and catches up with play.

RULING: In (a), the officials shall stop play and assess a team technical foul for not having all players return to the court at approximately the same time after a time-out. The technical foul counts toward the team-foul count. In (b), the officials may permit play to continue without penalty. A5's return to the court was not deceitful, nor did it provide A5 an unfair positioning advantage on the court.