horse collar in EZ

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by phansen

NFHS

Team A is on their own 2 yard line. QB A1 scrambles in the end zone and is tackled by horse collar in the end zone by B1. How is the penalty enforced?

NF: 10-5-2, "The enforcement spot for any foul by the defense is the goal line when the run ends in the end zone and would result in a safety."

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

NF: 10-5-2, "The enforcement spot for any foul by the defense is the goal line when the run ends in the end zone and would result in a safety."

This can't be a safety!

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

This can't be a safety!

It would have been if B had not fouled.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

This can't be a safety!

Of course not... another example of the classic FED and NCAA run-on sentence. Throw in a comma - they really mean that if the play WOULD HAVE resulted in a safety (sans the penalty), the enforcement spot is the goal line.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Of course not... another example of the classic FED and NCAA run-on sentence. Throw in a comma - they really mean that if the play WOULD HAVE resulted in a safety (sans the penalty), the enforcement spot is the goal line.

Thank you...it is early but no that early.

[JRutledge]

The result of the play is a safety without a penalty. So you tell the team if they do not want a safety then accept the penalty. And based on the overall situation in the game that might not be something we should automatically assume.

Peace

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The result of the play is a safety without a penalty. So you tell the team if they do not want a safety then accept the penalty. And based on the overall situation in the game that might not be something we should automatically assume.

Peace

exactly.

[Just Me]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The result of the play is a safety without a penalty. So you tell the team if they do not want a safety then accept the penalty. And based on the overall situation in the game that might not be something we should automatically assume.

Peace

Yeah, because a team would rather give the other guys 2 pts and the ball rather than replaying the down from the 15 (a 13yd gain with no down counted). Do you even think before you answer? Come up with some reasonable situation where any team would not take the penalty.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Just Me

Yeah, because a team would rather give the other guys 2 pts and the ball rather than replaying the down from the 15 (a 13yd gain with no down counted). Do you even think before you answer? Come up with some reasonable situation where any team would not take the penalty.

How many posts do you have?

Yes, game situation they might want to take the field position with the two points instead of taking the ball at the 15. Not likely, but very possible which is why you give them the option. I do recall a pro coach took the wind in OT instead of getting the ball. And they lost but the coach wanted the wind so bad and ended up losing. Not our job to think for coaches.

I think officials often assume teams want something only to find out the team wanted the not so obvious option. But hey, forgive me for having dealt with that personally as an official then talking about it only on a forum like some will do.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Just Me

Yeah, because a team would rather give the other guys 2 pts and the ball rather than replaying the down from the 15 (a 13yd gain with no down counted). Do you even think before you answer? Come up with some reasonable situation where any team would not take the penalty.

Make it a punter instead of a QB. A up by 6, 20 seconds to go, 4th down and 30 from the 2. Coach tells punter to catch the snap and step out of the endzone - would rather punt from the 20 without a rush, than punt from the edge of the endzone, risking a block. Punter flubs the snap, picks it up, and in a panic tries to step out of bounds instead of just falling to the ground. Punter is HCT'd in the EZ.

Take the safety and punt from the 20 instead of trying again to punt from the 15, with a rush (and actually punting from about the 3-4 yard line.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Just Me

Yeah, because a team would rather give the other guys 2 pts and the ball rather than replaying the down from the 15 (a 13yd gain with no down counted). Do you even think before you answer? Come up with some reasonable situation where any team would not take the penalty.

Hey newbie, there are situations where a team would prefer to take a safety.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The result of the play is a safety without a penalty. So you tell the team if they do not want a safety then accept the penalty. And based on the overall situation in the game that might not be something we should automatically assume.

Peace

I *frequently* enforce penalties without explaining all the options to the captains/coaches. This would be one of those times.

I had a funny situation where we had a flag from the LJ and I was over at the sideline getting the info -- I turned to the coach and said, "Declined, right?" (as doing so would yield a 4th and 8) and he was confused for a minute and said, "aren't you going to ask my captain" and I said, "Why, you and I are right here." He laughed. Anything complex or complicated or when I'm in the coach's lap goes through the coaches. I don't believe in letting a captain screw up penalty enforcement for us (or the coin toss, for that matter).

Getting back to the topic -- asking A whether they'd want the safety against them (to me) is a not-very-bright move by a white hat.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Of course not... another example of the classic FED and NCAA run-on sentence. Throw in a comma - they really mean that if the play WOULD HAVE resulted in a safety (sans the penalty), the enforcement spot is the goal line.

Actually, the grammar is correct here, though elliptical. Let me fill it in:

The enforcement spot is the goal line when (two conditions are both met, namely: )
(a) the run ends in the end zone, and
(b) (the play) would result in a safety (if A declines the penalty).

Yeah, that's better.