Horsecollar help

[Refsmitty]

A1 long run and is horsecollar tackled at the 5 yard line - as he is going down he fumbles and B1 recovers. We rule A retains ball and penalize B half the distance - 1 and goal. Right - wrong

[mbyron]

Right. Penalty is enforced from the end of the run, which sounds like the B5. Given that it was a "long run" -- long enough to pass the line to gain -- it should be 1st/goal from the B2.5.

[HLin NC]

Correct- no different than say the runner had been facemasked and fumbled.
B didn't get the ball with clean hands. If A gained the first down its 1st and goal, if they don't get the LTG on the advance or on the mark off, repeat the down.

[ppaltice]

Just want to add for NFHS, that this is part of the new changes to the horsecollar rule (last year, the wording was runner pulled to the ground, now it is "that opponent"). Last year you could not have a horsecollar on this play as the player was no longer a runner when he was brought to the ground.

Sounds like you got it right. HC penalty during the loose ball, basic spot is the end of the run (or spot of the fumble). First and goal at 2.5 yardline.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

Just want to add for NFHS, that this is part of the new changes to the horsecollar rule (last year, the wording was runner pulled to the ground, now it is "that opponent"). Last year you could not have a horsecollar on this play as the player was no longer a runner when he was brought to the ground.

Sounds like you got it right. HC penalty during the loose ball, basic spot is the end of the run (or spot of the fumble). First and goal at 2.5 yardline.

A semantic change from the way it was enforced around here. We simply would've called it a live ball personal foul. Same enforcement, different signal.

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A semantic change from the way it was enforced around here. We simply would've called it a live ball personal foul. Same enforcement, different signal.

Right or wrong, we did the same. Just no horsecollar signal.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

A semantic change from the way it was enforced around here. We simply would've called it a live ball personal foul. Same enforcement, different signal.

If he's in the act of getting pulled down by the HC and then loses the ball during that act or at the very end of it...I'm still calling HC. He was a runner when the act occurred...the split second before he touches the ground/loses the ball are miniscule IMO. Either one is PF. Just had this in a game in WI this past week.

[ppaltice]

Originally Posted by Canned Heat

If he's in the act of getting pulled down by the HC and then loses the ball during that act or at the very end of it...I'm still calling HC. He was a runner when the act occurred...the split second before he touches the ground/loses the ball are miniscule IMO. Either one is PF. Just had this in a game in WI this past week.

Sorry for the confusion. This year it is a HC all the way. The act starts with grabbing the runner's collar or shoulder pads and ends with "that opponent" being subsequently pulled to the ground. The player does not need to be the runner when he is pulled to the ground, only when the HC is initiated (9-4-3k).

Oh, and runner does not need to be the ball carrier. It also includes someone simulating carrying the ball (2-32-13).

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by ppaltice

Sorry for the confusion. This year it is a HC all the way. The act starts with grabbing the runner's collar or shoulder pads and ends with "that opponent" being subsequently pulled to the ground. The player does not need to be the runner when he is pulled to the ground, only when the HC is initiated (9-4-3k).

Oh, and runner does not need to be the ball carrier. It also includes someone simulating carrying the ball (2-32-13).

I realized I hadn't applied the revision after I sent it...you're right, it's any opponent, ball carrier or not.