Horsecollar

[jordan]

If an offensive player fumbles the ball before he is horsecollared and the defense recovers the ball, who gets the ball after the penalty is enforced? We discussed this in our association meeting and I still don't know that we all agreed as to who gets the ball.
Thanks

[yankeesfan]

it sounds to me like the defense did not get the ball with "clean hands", offense would retain possession.

[AUgrad2006]

Under NFHS rules, if it is clear that the player lost possession before the defender initiates the contact at the collar, there is no foul for a horsecollar tackle per se under 9-4-3k because the player was not a runner.

The contact can still be deemed to be unnecessary under 9-4-3g. If the foul occurs while the ball is loose, it is penalized from the basic spot (end of run if fumbled beyond NZ, previous spot if fumbled behind NZ). Team A would retain the ball.

If the ball is recovered by B and the foul occurs after this recovery, B would retain possession and be penalized either from the end of the run or spot of the foul under the all-but-one principle.

Also, if the defender initiates the contact while the runner has possession, the runner subsequently fumbles and then the defender completes the horsecollar tackle, this is a horsecollar tackle under 9-4-3k and would be penalized from the basic spot.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by jordan

If an offensive player fumbles the ball before he is horsecollared and the defense recovers the ball, who gets the ball after the penalty is enforced? We discussed this in our association meeting and I still don't know that we all agreed as to who gets the ball.
Thanks

CANADIAN RULING:

Horsecollar is a UR foul and therefore is applied at PF, PP, or PBD at A's option, but B will retain possession, Team B 1D/10.

[JRutledge]

Horse Collar is a foul against an opponent that was once a runner. So if the action starts with the ball then that runner fumbles the ball but is still pulled to the ground then that is still an opponent.

Peace

[HLin NC]

Under NFHS rules, if it is clear that the player lost possession before the defender initiates the contact at the collar, there is no foul for a horsecollar tackle per se under 9-4-3k because the player was not a runner.

That is one of the 2010 rule changes. "Runner" was changed to "opponent".

k. Grab the inside back or side collar of the shoulder pads or jersey of the runner and subsequently pull that opponent to the ground (Horse-collar).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

That is one of the 2010 rule changes. "Runner" was changed to "opponent".

True. But the action constituting the foul must begin when we have a runner. If the runner fumbles before the defender touches him, it can't be a horsecollar foul.

It's not clear from the OP exactly what happened.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

True. But the action constituting the foul must begin when we have a runner. If the runner fumbles before the defender touches him, it can't be a horsecollar foul.

It's not clear from the OP exactly what happened.

That is very true. You could still have something else, but not a horse collar foul.

Peace