Horsecollar

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The case play says that B2 tackles A1, so the implication is that B2 is who brings the runner down. No foul. What I said is clearly different.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I understand the statement "while still in the grasp of B1" to mean that B1 had at the very least a basic part in the tackle, since he did not let go. Would you say that if both B1 and B2 brought the runner down, you would call horse collar?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I understand the statement "while still in the grasp of B1" to mean that B1 had at the very least a basic part in the tackle, since he did not let go. Would you say that if both B1 and B2 brought the runner down, you would call horse collar?

It's all judgment. Either I'm saying to the coach:

(1) B1 brought the runner down with the HC (and I really don't care if B2 was touching A1 or not), or
(2) Sure, B1 had his hand there, but B2 was the one who tackled A1.

So I'd have to see the play. However, I'm not looking for an excuse to absolve B1 -- if I think he's responsible for bringing A1 down, I'm throwing a flag.

We had 4 HC fouls last week -- 2 in a JV game on Thursday and 2 in the varsity game on Friday. All were called to the letter and spirit of the rule.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's all judgment. Either I'm saying to the coach:

(1) B1 brought the runner down with the HC (and I really don't care if B2 was touching A1 or not), or
(2) Sure, B1 had his hand there, but B2 was the one who tackled A1.

So I'd have to see the play. However, I'm not looking for an excuse to absolve B1 -- if I think he's responsible for bringing A1 down, I'm throwing a flag.

We had 4 HC fouls last week -- 2 in a JV game on Thursday and 2 in the varsity game on Friday. All were called to the letter and spirit of the rule.

I got what you said the first time. But I would be trying to not call this if another player made contact with the runner (opponent).

Peace

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It's all judgment. Either I'm saying to the coach:

(1) B1 brought the runner down with the HC (and I really don't care if B2 was touching A1 or not), or
(2) Sure, B1 had his hand there, but B2 was the one who tackled A1.

So I'd have to see the play. However, I'm not looking for an excuse to absolve B1 -- if I think he's responsible for bringing A1 down, I'm throwing a flag.

We had 4 HC fouls last week -- 2 in a JV game on Thursday and 2 in the varsity game on Friday. All were called to the letter and spirit of the rule.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

This slide doesn't contradict a single thing I've written. If (based on what you quoted), it's (1), it's a foul. If (2), no foul. I think I've been pretty clear in what I've written -- haven't I been?

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

This slide doesn't contradict a single thing I've written. If (based on what you quoted), it's (1), it's a foul. If (2), no foul. I think I've been pretty clear in what I've written -- haven't I been?

Apparently not, because this illustration seems to contradict exactly what you have been saying. It seems to support the general consensus that "additional contact negates the HC foul."

Anyway, I have a tendency to be bull headed and stubborn on things I shouldn't be, so I humbly surrender. I can see where in the technical sense of the rule, you would be correct, but I still can't envision anything in real life that would make me call a HC if there is additional contact.
Peace, Grits, and Gravy to you and yours.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

Apparently not, because this illustration seems to contradict exactly what you have been saying. It seems to support the general consensus that "additional contact negates the HC foul."

Other contact results in runner being downed is far different than other contact occurs.

I'm done with this, too. No reason to keep beating the same drum. However, I will say that there seems to be far less than a "consensus."

Let me throw this hypothetical at you, though. This happened in Week 1 in my varsity game.

A23 runs right. He's held up pretty quickly by multiple B players. Maybe a second before we would've ruled progress stopped, a B player on his knees reaches up from behind, reaches into the back of A23's collar, and pulls A23 straight back to the ground. Would you flag this?

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Other contact results in runner being downed is far different than other contact occurs.

I'm done with this, too. No reason to keep beating the same drum. However, I will say that there seems to be far less than a "consensus."

Let me throw this hypothetical at you, though. This happened in Week 1 in my varsity game.

A23 runs right. He's held up pretty quickly by multiple B players. Maybe a second before we would've ruled progress stopped, a B player on his knees reaches up from behind, reaches into the back of A23's collar, and pulls A23 straight back to the ground. Would you flag this?

no, because other contact was involved.
About the only way I'll call a horsecollar is one runner, one defensive guy, a hand inside the collar at the back or side, and a pull down backwards or to the side.