TE cut blocks

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by movingthechains

Interesting discussion ......in my association they intrepret the rule differently than NFHS, it is not allowed period in the shotgun because their logic is the ball has left the zone at the snap because a shotgun snap is 5-7 yards, and they defined the zone as tackle to tackle therefore the tight end can not BBW. THe area coaches were involved in the decision so they are always sure to point out the habitual offending teams in the pregame discussion with the WH.

If it really is your association's "interp," they're wrong twice.

2.17.2 SITUATION E: A1 is in shotgun formation, lined up seven yards behind
the line of scrimmage ready to receive the snap. Immediately after the snap to A1,
(a) A2 immediately drops and blocks B1 below the waist or (b) A2 rises, and
slightly retreats as if to go in traditional pass blocking protection, but then dives
and blocks B1 below the waist. Both A2 and B1 were in the zone and on the line
of scrimmage at the snap. The contact between A2 and B1 takes place in the freeblocking
zone. RULING: It is a legal block in (a) and an illegal block below the
waist in (b). It is legal for A2 to block B1 below the waist if the contact is made
immediately following the snap. Any later, and the ball is considered to have left
the free-blocking zone and the block is illegal.

2-17-1 . . . The free-blocking zone is a rectangular area extending laterally 4
yards either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of
scrimmage. A player is in the free-blocking zone when any part of his body is in
the zone at the snap.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by movingthechains

Interesting discussion ......in my association they intrepret the rule differently than NFHS, it is not allowed period in the shotgun because their logic is the ball has left the zone at the snap because a shotgun snap is 5-7 yards, and they defined the zone as tackle to tackle therefore the tight end can not BBW. THe area coaches were involved in the decision so they are always sure to point out the habitual offending teams in the pregame discussion with the WH.

I've heard of officials making up their own wrong interpretations that are clearly not what the rules say... but I chalk that up to poor training or just ignorance.

Not often an entire association ends up doing that.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

+1.

If it's a shotgun snap, the block must be immediate (no delay) in order to meet the spirit of the FBZ / rule. At least that's how it's interpreted most places.

In my state (MS) this is the proper interpretation. If a lineman steps back then cuts, it's illegal. If he's gonna cut, he must fire off low at the snap if the snap is a shotgun-type.

Also, b/c the fbz is defined as 6x8, we don't refer to it as a tackle box. The general rule is that if the splits are tight or regular, the TE is in the box at the snap. If the splits are extraordinarily wide, it's possible for the TE to be outside the box.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BroKen62

If the splits are extraordinarily wide, it's possible for the TE to be outside the box.

If the end is out of the FBZ, he's not really tight, is he.

[BroKen62]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If the end is out of the FBZ, he's not really tight, is he.

Very true!

[Robert Goodman]

In NCAA, where is the FBZ centered if team A has an even number of players on their LOS?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In NCAA, where is the FBZ centered if team A has an even number of players on their LOS?

You're kidding, right?

Find in the book where it has you count players...

[Welpe]

Per an NCAA memo last year, the blocking zone is centered on the middle lineman of the offensive formation. If there is an even number I suppose you'd use the midway point betweeen the two middle linemen.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Per an NCAA memo last year, the blocking zone is centered on the middle lineman of the offensive formation. If there is an even number I suppose you'd use the midway point betweeen the two middle linemen.

Not exactly. An even number on the LOS is immaterial. What matters is the number of linemen in formation near the center (not necessarily centered on the center, of course). You should not care how many are on the line (in fact ... since this is R and U's call, they may not even know if an 8th guy is inadvertently on the line somewhere. And usually, your extra (or missing if you just have 6) guys are misplaced wide-outs. R is not moving the blocking zone based on the positioning of wings.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not exactly. An even number on the LOS is immaterial. What matters is the number of linemen in formation near the center (not necessarily centered on the center, of course). You should not care how many are on the line (in fact ... since this is R and U's call, they may not even know if an 8th guy is inadvertently on the line somewhere. And usually, your extra (or missing if you just have 6) guys are misplaced wide-outs. R is not moving the blocking zone based on the positioning of wings.

If by "center" you mean "snapper", I don't think his positioning is relevant in determining where the middle lineman is. In one of those split line formations where the ball is snapped by a split end (and the other players on the OL are close to each other), the ball is out of the FBZ before the play even starts!

[movingthechains]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If it really is your association's "interp," they're wrong twice.

2.17.2 SITUATION E: A1 is in shotgun formation, lined up seven yards behind
the line of scrimmage ready to receive the snap. Immediately after the snap to A1,
(a) A2 immediately drops and blocks B1 below the waist or (b) A2 rises, and
slightly retreats as if to go in traditional pass blocking protection, but then dives
and blocks B1 below the waist. Both A2 and B1 were in the zone and on the line
of scrimmage at the snap. The contact between A2 and B1 takes place in the freeblocking
zone. RULING: It is a legal block in (a) and an illegal block below the
waist in (b). It is legal for A2 to block B1 below the waist if the contact is made
immediately following the snap. Any later, and the ball is considered to have left
the free-blocking zone and the block is illegal.

2-17-1 . . . The free-blocking zone is a rectangular area extending laterally 4
yards either side of the spot of the snap and 3 yards behind each line of
scrimmage. A player is in the free-blocking zone when any part of his body is in
the zone at the snap.

Im aware our associations intrepretation is different than NFHS rule book. however I agree with the shotgun part becasue if a qb is 7 yards deep and the FBZ extends 3 yards then technically when the ball is snapped it has left the zone. I think they are erring on the side of safety and like I said the coaches are fine with it.

[tomes1978]

Originally Posted by movingthechains

Im aware our associations intrepretation is different than NFHS rule book. however I agree with the shotgun part becasue if a qb is 7 yards deep and the FBZ extends 3 yards then technically when the ball is snapped it has left the zone. I think they are erring on the side of safety and like I said the coaches are fine with it.

"Technically" the ball is still in the FBZ at the snap.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by movingthechains

... they defined the zone as tackle to tackle therefore the tight end can not BBW.

Which is completely contrary to the rule.

Originally Posted by movingthechains

Im aware our associations intrepretation is different than NFHS rule book. however I agree with the shotgun part becasue if a qb is 7 yards deep and the FBZ extends 3 yards then technically when the ball is snapped it has left the zone. I think they are erring on the side of safety and like I said the coaches are fine with it.

No, the ball has no left the zone at the snap. The zone is three yards deep, so the ball is not out of the zone until it travels the three yards.

There's no safety issue here. BBW immediately after the snap while in shotgun is no more dangerous than blocking in the same manner on a hand to hand snap.

What other rules do they make up in your area?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not exactly. An even number on the LOS is immaterial. What matters is the number of linemen in formation near the center (not necessarily centered on the center, of course). You should not care how many are on the line (in fact ... since this is R and U's call, they may not even know if an 8th guy is inadvertently on the line somewhere. And usually, your extra (or missing if you just have 6) guys are misplaced wide-outs. R is not moving the blocking zone based on the positioning of wings.

We're only talking about a foot or two at the most, not even a yard in a normal formation. Quite technically you do need to consider who your middle lineman is but it's not going to matter unless you have a strange formation.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Welpe

We're only talking about a foot or two at the most, not even a yard in a normal formation. Quite technically you do need to consider who your middle lineman is but it's not going to matter unless you have a strange formation.

But what if you do have a strange formation?