Brain teaser

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry Mike, I just assumed you simply made a typo and went with your initial observation, "can I be more clearer than this: "NO ONE THINKS THIS IS LEGAL PARTICIPATION". I presumed after my telling you the rule number, you would have actually looked it up and realized your assessment is simply wrong.

It's hilarious that the guy who refuses to actually read a rule says this.

I'll try and explain if for you Mike, in simple terms; there's really nothing wrong, or illegal, about going out of bounds. Anyone can do so whenever they choose without fear of penalty. The problem arises from the conditions under which they "return to the field during the down", the requirements for which are spelled out in NF: 9-6.

You are quoting 9-6-1 which only applies to A or K who was blocked out of bounds. The full quote is:

"Prior to a change of possession, or when there is no change of possession, no player of A or K shall go out of bounds and return to the field during the down unless blocked out of bounds by an opponent. If a player is blocked out of bounds by an opponent and returns to the field during the down, he shall return at the first opportunity."

The rule that is relevant here is instead 9-6-2 (as I've said at least three times) which says in full:

"During the down, no player shall intentionally go out of bounds and return."

Notice how it doesn't say return to the field.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

The rule that is relevant here is instead 9-6-2 (as I've said at least three times) which says in full:

"During the down, no player shall intentionally go out of bounds and return."

Notice how it doesn't say return to the field.

Are you serious? Are you actually going to suggest that , "intentionally go out of bounds and return" might mean something other than return TO THE FIELD? Are you willing to hang your hat on that nail?

As I keep trying to tell you, and others who share your "opinion", do what you think is right. I have no problem dealing with this issue the way I see it. If you are comfortable dealing with it the way you see it, knock yourself out - Good Luck.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Are you serious? Are you actually going to suggest that , "intentionally go out of bounds and return" might mean something other than return TO THE FIELD? Are you willing to hang your hat on that nail?

As I keep trying to tell you, and others who share your "opinion", do what you think is right. I have no problem dealing with this issue the way I see it. If you are comfortable dealing with it the way you see it, knock yourself out - Good Luck.

If it meant return to the field, it would say return to the field just like 9-6-1 does. The fact that 9-6-1 and 9-6-2 state it differently is actually important.

I will hang my hat on the rules every time. You keep adding words to the rules to make them mean what you want them to mean.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

If it meant return to the field, it would say return to the field just like 9-6-1 does. The fact that 9-6-1 and 9-6-2 state it differently is actually important.

I will hang my hat on the rules every time. You keep adding words to the rules to make them mean what you want them to mean.

Important? OK, but you forgot to mention exactly where, your strict adherence to the rule, tells you where the OOB player is prohibited from returning to. At some point, Eastshire, you will hopefully come to accept that we do a much more effective job when understand what a rule actually means, in addition to what it says.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Important? OK, but you forgot to mention exactly where, your strict adherence to the rule, tells you where the OOB player is prohibited from returning to. At some point, Eastshire, you will hopefully come to accept that we do a much more effective job when understand what a rule actually means, in addition to what it says.

Actually, I haven't. He's returning to not being OOB, as we've said quite often.

When what you say a rule means is the opposite of what it says, you're not being effective, you're not enforcing the rule.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Actually, I haven't. He's returning to not being OOB, as we've said quite often.

When what you say a rule means is the opposite of what it says, you're not being effective, you're not enforcing the rule.

If Out of Bounds is being beyond the confines of the playing field (as defined in NF: 1-1-2), where does someone return to, if not within the confines of the field of play? Jibberish works for some people, but not all.

Just a suggestion, but when your best possible explanation of something is more confusing and sounds sillier than your original observation, you might consider just not saying anything.

I have never suggested, "When what you say a rule means is the opposite of what it says", I have simply opined that the interpretation that a player, who has absolutely satisfied the requirements of becoming OOB, somehow loses that designation by simply jumping up into the air, while remaining outside the playing field, is simply inaccurate and makes absolutely no common sense or serves any purpose related to the game of football, and therefore I conclude is incorrect.

Forgive me for repeating myself, but if you can provide ANY rational explanation, or even suggestion, why such a contradictory concept should even be remotely considered, I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by ajmc

If Out of Bounds is being beyond the confines of the playing field (as defined in NF: 1-1-2), where does someone return to, if not within the confines of the field of play? Jibberish works for some people, but not all.

I'd hate to break it to you, but not only does 1-1-2 not contain any definitions, it doesn't even mention out of bounds. OOB is actually defined in 2-29 and of course you just don't like what it says. As to where someone is returning to, as I said in just my last post giving further evidence you don't actually read what anyone is saying, is not OOB.

Just a suggestion, but when your best possible explanation of something is more confusing and sounds sillier than your original observation, you might consider just not saying anything.

I have never suggested, "When what you say a rule means is the opposite of what it says", I have simply opined that the interpretation that a player, who has absolutely satisfied the requirements of becoming OOB, somehow loses that designation by simply jumping up into the air, while remaining outside the playing field, is simply inaccurate and makes absolutely no common sense or serves any purpose related to the game of football, and therefore I conclude is incorrect.

Forgive me for repeating myself, but if you can provide ANY rational explanation, or even suggestion, why such a contradictory concept should even be remotely considered, I'll be happy to reevaluate my position.

I agree that including airborne players who last touched OOB as OOB players is rational. That's the choice basketball made. However, it's not the choice that football made. Having OOB players only include those actually touching OOB is also a rational choice, your dislike of it notwithstanding.

You are ignoring the rule because you don't like it, not because it isn't rational.

Anyways, this will be my last post on the matter as it's clear your more interested in what you want the rules to be than what the rules actually are.