Pick your ruling

[whitehat]

[QUOTE=mbyron;685318]Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7 . . . A yard line is any line and its vertical plane parallel to the end lines. The yard lines, marked or unmarked, in the field of play are numbered in yards from a team’s own goal line to the middle of the field."

I'm without my rule book as I post but above is a quote of Art 7 from the first page. if it is correct then it also says "from a team's own goal line..." which would exclude the end zone. So the point made in that post is invalid by definition as I see it.

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.

Anybody have a casebook example one way or the other...always willing to learn but when in doubt fairness gets the nod and 1st and ten at the 15 is the fairest enforcement.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by whitehat

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.

You are correct, the basic spot would be the 20 yard line. But, this is a foul committed by the offense behind the basic spot, the "one" in the "all but one" principle. Ergo, the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul.

[APG]

[quote=whitehat;687065]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7 . . . A yard line is any line and its vertical plane parallel to the end lines. The yard lines, marked or unmarked, in the field of play are numbered in yards from a team’s own goal line to the middle of the field."

I'm without my rule book as I post but above is a quote of Art 7 from the first page. if it is correct then it also says "from a team's own goal line..." which would exclude the end zone. So the point made in that post is invalid by definition as I see it.

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.

Anybody have a casebook example one way or the other...always willing to learn but when in doubt fairness gets the nod and 1st and ten at the 15 is the fairest enforcement.

Not Fed and not exactly the same but similar...

NCAA:
Approved Ruling 10-2-2:
XXVI. B1 intercepts a legal forward pass (not a try) deep in his end zone and is unable to get out of the end zone, where he is downed. During the run, B2 clips A1 in the end zone.
RULING: Penalty—Safety. The 20-yard line is the basic spot. (Rules 8-5-1-b and 10-2-2-d-2-a).

NFL (2009)
Approved Ruling 8.5
A forward pass is intercepted by a defensive player in his end zone. While in the end zone, he attempts to pass backward. The pass goes forward, hits the ground on the 1 yard line and is recovered by the first passing team.
Ruling: Safety. Forward pass not form scrimmage in the end zone.

I'm sure someone will come along with an applicable NFHS casebook play

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7 . . . A yard line is any line and its vertical plane parallel to the end lines. The yard lines, marked or unmarked, in the field of play are numbered in yards from a team’s own goal line to the middle of the field."

I'm without my rule book as I post but above is a quote of Art 7 from the first page. if it is correct then it also says "from a team's own goal line..." which would exclude the end zone. So the point made in that post is invalid by definition as I see it.

It says the yard lines IN THE FIELD OF PLAY are NUMBERED from the goal line. The definition of a yard line is the first sentence - notably ANY line parallel to the end lines.

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.

Anybody have a casebook example one way or the other...always willing to learn but when in doubt fairness gets the nod and 1st and ten at the 15 is the fairest enforcement.

I'm currently looking at the 2007 casebook, but I'm pretty sure this hasn't changed.

8.5.2 SITUATION F: B1 intercepts on his own 4-yard line and his momentum
takes him into B's end zone. ... (d) B2 holds A1 in the end zone as B1 is downed there.
RULING: ... In (d), the foul by B2 occurred in the end zone behind the basic spot,
resulting in a safety.

This addresses the foul in the end zone part of things, but not the forward handing bit. I'm convinced you can have forward handing in the end zone, but I'll run this one by our interpreter anyway.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

It says the yard lines IN THE FIELD OF PLAY are NUMBERED from the goal line. The definition of a yard line is the first sentence - notably ANY line parallel to the end lines.

whitehat's misuse of the quote feature makes it seem as if your post disagrees with mine, when in fact you're reiterating what I said in my post.

To put the point yet another way: the rule that mentions yard lines "in the field of play" makes a point about numbering, not about the existence of yard lines.

[BroKen62]

[QUOTE=whitehat;687065][QUOTE=mbyron;685318]Nope. Here's 2-26-7:
"ART. 7

Further (wish I had my rulebook with me), I am not convinced basic spot enforcement applies against B, in B's endzone, when A is responsible for putting the ball there. On the fly as R I am giving B the ball at the 20 then penalizing them 5 so 1st and 10 from the 15...until convinced otherwise.



Basic spot enforcement always applies. If B had not carried it out, basic spot would be 20 - since B did carry it out, basic spot is end of run. All but one principle still applies either way - foul behind basic spot, safety.
10-6: Unless otherwise listed in Section 4 and 5, a penalty for a foul occurring during a play is enforced from the basic spot with the exception of a foul by the offense which occurs behind the basic spot