Video of a call I finally got right!!!

[DrMooreReferee]

At about the 3:25 mark of this video. The score is tied 20-20. And there is a kickoff return. I'm curious if there was a flag on this play for a dead-ball personal foul. It looks to me like this guy get creamed after he was clearly OOB. I didn't see any flags flying. But I suppose there could've been some. I'm just curious, thats all.

Also, on the very same play where you ruled the player short of the goal line. What does everyone think about that block by #66. Has the ball left the zone yet? If they had been in shotgun formation, I'd say for certain that this block was illegal. The block was certainly delayed. But I do think maybe the ball was still in the freeblocking zone. And I think if there is doubt about that, then you have to leave that alone. But its close! Good call on the guy being down short of the goal. No doubt about that one.

[FBullock]

I agree you got the call correct but who was looking at the left tackle on that play. (They put the box on him.) Looks like he stands up then cuts the defensive lineman. In college that's legal but blocking below the waist in HS is not allowed. Who should have been looking at that?

[Welpe]

There are certain circumstances in Federation rules where blocking below the waist is legal. One of them is on a scrimmage down, a lineman may block another below the waist if both were in the free blocking zone at the snap, the block was in the free blocking zone and the ball was in the free blocking zone.

[FBullock]

Originally Posted by Welpe

There are certain circumstances in Federation rules where blocking below the waist is legal. One of them is on a scrimmage down, a lineman may block another below the waist if both were in the free blocking zone at the snap, the block was in the free blocking zone and the ball was in the free blocking zone.

I agree that in certain situations, as you say it's legal to block below the waist. This play is border line, as other also stated, as to being legal. My question was, did anyone on the crew see it. It's probably a pass but definetly a talk-to with be player/coach. It's also a great play to discuss (as we are doing here) both from a rules and mechanics situation.

Looks like you guys had a great game & had it covered.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by FBullock

I agree that in certain situations, as you say it's legal to block below the waist. This play is border line, as other also stated, as to being legal. My question was, did anyone on the crew see it. It's probably a pass but definetly a talk-to with be player/coach. It's also a great play to discuss (as we are doing here) both from a rules and mechanics situation.

Looks like you guys had a great game & had it covered.

Why a talk-to on a legal block? The ball isn't close to being out of the FBZ. Legal block.

[FBullock]

I believe it's very close to being an illegal block and the ball being out of the FBZ. From the angle we have on the video, we can't be 100 %. I think any opportunity we have a player that's close to fouling and we see it, we let them know that we saw the play are watching them. This guy probably watches a lot of plays on TV on Saturday & Sunday in which no matter where the ball is the "cut block" is legal. The don't know the difference. This is also a potential safty concern which is another reason to talk to the player.

This is my opinion an some won't agree with it. Do what works for you. I'm not coaching but I'm letting them know that I watching.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by waltjp

Why a talk-to on a legal block? The ball isn't close to being out of the FBZ. Legal block.

+1

That's like scolding a cornerback because he almost hit the receiver early.

[FBullock]

Originally Posted by mbyron

+1

That's like scolding a cornerback because he almost hit the receiver early.

It's not scolding, it's preventative officiating. If they do a good job of avoiding a late hit OB or piling on,etc., you let them know that as well. Field presents and communications with the players is what I'm talking about.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by FBullock

I agree you got the call correct but who was looking at the left tackle on that play. (They put the box on him.) Looks like he stands up then cuts the defensive lineman. In college that's legal but blocking below the waist in HS is not allowed. Who should have been looking at that?

In 5-man mechanics, the wing on that side of the field would have an initial key on that but it's very possible he left his key before the block and could have missed it. I agree with other comments that this is not a foul because the ball is still in the FBZ and both players are on the LOS at the snap. But this is close enough that I talk to him if I see it. If you watched the rest of the video you find out this guy was recruited by Notre Dame and he's currently a sophomore on their roster.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

In 5-man mechanics, the wing on that side of the field would have an initial key on that but it's very possible he left his key before the block and could have missed it. I agree with other comments that this is not a foul because the ball is still in the FBZ and both players are on the LOS at the snap. But this is close enough that I talk to him if I see it. If you watched the rest of the video you find out this guy was recruited by Notre Dame and he's currently a sophomore on their roster.

This sounds like a mechanical difference, but not in our state's mechanics. The key for the wing would be the receiver or inside receiver based on the strength of the formation. I believe in this play the Referee had this "key" based on the formation and the QB's arm. Then again this might be different based on other mechanics. I just know the wing likely does not have this block initially, but then again after the ball is snapped, then we move on to other things.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

This sounds like a mechanical difference, but not in our state's mechanics. The key for the wing would be the receiver or inside receiver based on the strength of the formation. I believe in this play the Referee had this "key" based on the formation and the QB's arm. Then again this might be different based on other mechanics. I just know the wing likely does not have this block initially, but then again after the ball is snapped, then we move on to other things.

Peace

Unless the receivers you mentioned are pressed, you should key on the T at least to read pass/run. If you only watch your receiver(s) (sometimes 2 with 5-man) and they aren't pressed, you are officiating air. With 5-man mechanics, the Ts are often left unwatched and can get away with more than others. I've always been taught my wing officials much smarter than me to watch the Ts initial block as often as you can.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Unless the receivers you mentioned are pressed, you should key on the T at least to read pass/run. If you only watch your receiver(s) (sometimes 2 with 5-man) and they aren't pressed, you are officiating air. With 5-man mechanics, the Ts are often left unwatched and can get away with more than others. I've always been taught my wing officials much smarter than me to watch the Ts initial block as often as you can.

All I am saying is there is a mechanical difference. I feel the wing can pick this up, but as it relates to the key that is not their responsibility. I will say this again, a "key" is only a very brief look at the initial movement of a player to read the run or the pass. After you realize what the offense is doing, you go to other things. You cannot stay with "keys" very long in 5 or 4 man mechanics. Based on the play it looks legal, but the angle does not disprove or support exactly where the ball is which would be the determining factor.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

At about the 3:25 mark of this video. The score is tied 20-20. And there is a kickoff return. I'm curious if there was a flag on this play for a dead-ball personal foul. It looks to me like this guy get creamed after he was clearly OOB. I didn't see any flags flying. But I suppose there could've been some. I'm just curious, thats all.

Yes there was a flag on this play for a late hit. I was the one that called it as that was my sideline for the kickoff. Until I saw this video, I was not 100% sure I got it right after the fact. There was a TV feed of this game on Comcast SportsNet Chicago Live, but the TV feed did not confirm the call as they only showed an across the field view. This angle proves I got this right too.

Originally Posted by DrMooreReferee

Also, on the very same play where you ruled the player short of the goal line. What does everyone think about that block by #66. Has the ball left the zone yet? If they had been in shotgun formation, I'd say for certain that this block was illegal. The block was certainly delayed. But I do think maybe the ball was still in the freeblocking zone. And I think if there is doubt about that, then you have to leave that alone. But its close! Good call on the guy being down short of the goal. No doubt about that one.

I noticed the same thing. But considering the kind of play with a short drop and it is hard to tell, I would have likely let that go too based on the angle.

Peace