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Question re illegal forward pass
I'm a fan here, and I tried to find the answer in the rule book at ncaa.org, but I must not be looking in the right place:
If on 4th down, the QB crosses the line of scrimmage and throws an illegal forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage and the pass is caught for a first down, I know that the defense will have to accept the penalty because declining it would result in a first down. So, when they accept it, is the 5 yards marked off from the spot of the pass and then the possession goes over to the other team five yards from the spot of the pass? (B) If this is the case, what if after the five yards is marked off, the ball is still past the line to gain? (C) If the QB passes beyond the line of scrimmage on a 2 point conversion and it's caught for an apparnet successful two point conversion, is the try simply no good and we kickoff? Thanks in advance. |
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To help make penalty enforcement on fouls by Team A make sense is to think of it like this.... 1st and 10 from midfield. A player makes a great run to the 5yd line where he is tackled. His teammate held someone at the 10yd line. It would be a harsh penalty indeed if we went all the way back to the neutral zone and marched the 10yd holding from there. The guy made 40 yds honestly. The hold at the 10 likely only affected the yards made from the 10 to the 5. So we march the holding penalty from the flag at the 10, back to the 20. That is still enough for a 1st down so they get a new 1st and 10. Quote:
"If Team A commits a foul for which the penalty includes loss of down, the try is over, and the score is cancelled, and no yardage penalty is assessed on the succeeding kickoff. "
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Sorry Death, you lose.... It was Professor Plum! |
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This is what we do in Canada. We use the concept of Point Ball Held to determine the point of application in this situation. Mind you, finding Point Ball Held is harder than establishing Point of Foul so sometimes I do envy the simplicity of Point of Foul. |
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That's exactly what happens in Two Flake's play. Using the 3 and 1 Principle, the foul is behind the end of the run so we enforce from the spot of the foul. If the foul were in advance of the end of the run, we would enforce from the end of the run.
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers |
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The difference is illustrated in two examples: 1. Ball is at the Team B 25 yard line when the hold occurs at the 20. End of run is the 5. - In Canada we would enforce from the 25 - In the U.S. you would enforce from the 20. - In this case, we believe you give 5 yards too many from what the team earned prior to the foul. 2. Ball is at the Team B 15 yard line when the hold occurs at the 20. End of the run is the 5. - In Canada we would enforce from the 15 - In the U.S. you would enforce from the 20. - In this case, we believe you give 5 yards too few from what the team earned prior to the foul. Last edited by wwcfoa43; Wed Jun 23, 2010 at 03:49pm. |
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You are correct, I misread your post. My apologies.
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Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers |
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What's your suggestion? - ignoring the penalty yardage?
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I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more cowbell! |
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As an example, has the idea of establishing the "tackle box" (in relation to "dumping" a pass) reduced, or increased, the volume of passes dumped? I would suggest the removal of a yardage penalty would similarly increase the frequency of attempted illegal passes. |
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Depending on the type of illegal pass, there shouldn't need to be add'l consequences for "trying" them. I'm referring to those types of illegal forward pass which are not intentional grounding, as in the case that started this thread. Since they're so easily detected, there doesn't need to be any disincentive for trying them. Nobody does them intentionally; they're done when the passer is either attempting a backward pass that goes forward, or doesn't realize the conditions for a legal forward pass haven't been met.
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There's also this type of illegal forward pass: YouTube - Nick Foles boneheaded play, Shane Vereen TD |
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Honestly, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
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I got a fever! And the only prescription.. is more cowbell! |
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When the offense decides to pass, and the defense reacts so well that the offense is afraid to pass and doesn't want to run, why let them off the hook by simply dumping the pass? It's certainly not fair to the defense. |
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