Illegal Forward Pass

[largeone59]

Play: Running back gains 5 yards on a play and tries to lateral back to his partner. The RB gets hit, and the "lateral" ends up being forward. The ball hits the ground once, then is scooped up by the defense and returned for a score.

Is this illegal forward pass considered a fumble or should this play be blown dead?

What would the defense's options be on this play?

[ljudge]

If the INITIAL direction is parallel or toward the runner's endline it's a backward pass. There's no such thing as a "lateral" in officiating terms. If the ball hits the ground and the pass is forward it should be blown dead and ruled incomplete. If the defense recovers they simply recover a dead ball. If the pass is backward as per definition the official should not blow the whistle. Either team may recover and advance in this situation. If the official does blow the whistle **during backward pass then the whistle is inadvertent and IW rules come into play.

** - A backward pass doesn't end until it is caught, recovered, or is out of bounds.

So, if the runner throws the backward pass (initial direction) and the ball ends up going forward due to a heavy wind it's still considered a backward pass.

[largeone59]

so if the defense accepts the illegal forward pass penalty, is this a loss of down?

[mikesears]

Originally posted by largeone59
so if the defense accepts the illegal forward pass penalty, is this a loss of down?

Yes it is loss of down unless the offense (Team
A) reached the line-to-gain AFTER the penalty is enforced.


Case play.

1/10 on A's 20. A1 runs to a) A's 24 or b) A's 40 and he throws an illegal forward pass to A2. The pass falls to the ground and is incomplete.

In a) if the penalty is accepted, it is enforced from the A-24 and the loss of down is also enforced. A's ball 2/11 at the A-19. If this had been 4th down, B would have taken possession of the ball at the A-19.


In b) if the penalty is accepted, it is enforced from the A-40. It would be A's ball 1/10 from the A-35 because they reached the line-to-gain after the penalty was enforced. A new series can never start with any down but 1st down. The loss of down aspect is ignored in this case. If this had occured on 4th down, A would still have a 1st and ten because they reached the line-to-gain even after the penalty is enforced.

[largeone59]

Thanks guys

[wwcfoa43]

North of the border:

1. A pass is considered offside (that is forward) if the point of termination (where it is touched by a player of the ground) is further ahead than the point of origin (where it left the player throwing it). So if the ball was blown forward by the wind it would be an offside pass.

2. An "illegal forward pass" is one that was intended to be thrown from behind the line of scrimmage and the penalty for doing so is L10 from PLS.

3. An illegal forward pass that falls incomplete is a dead ball.

4. An offside pass that is not an illegal forward pass is NOT blown dead and the penalty for this is the point of origin of offside pass (which we avoid shortening to POOP) and downs continue. (Note also that an offside pass penalty is not a foul per se and so if this occurred on the last play of the game there would not be another play.)

So in the case cited, because the partner RB was behind the point of origin of the pass, the pass would not be an offside pass and so no penalty would be involved as in the U.S. rules.

[JugglingReferee]

[ref18]

Originally posted by wwcfoa43
North of the border:

...penalty for this is the point of origin of offside pass (which we avoid shortening to POOP)...

LOL

[kdf5]

Originally posted by largeone59
Play: Running back gains 5 yards on a play and tries to lateral back to his partner. The RB gets hit, and the "lateral" ends up being forward. The ball hits the ground once, then is scooped up by the defense and returned for a score.

Is this illegal forward pass considered a fumble or should this play be blown dead?

What would the defense's options be on this play?

Officials Manual, last page, Guides for When in question:

Incomplete pass or fumble = incomplete pass
Forward or backward = forward.

Sounds like a good one to blow dead with flag in pocket.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by largeone59
Play: Running back gains 5 yards on a play and tries to lateral back to his partner. The RB gets hit, and the "lateral" ends up being forward. The ball hits the ground once, then is scooped up by the defense and returned for a score.

Is this illegal forward pass considered a fumble or should this play be blown dead?

What would the defense's options be on this play?

Somebody said the word "lateral" does not exist which is true.

This play could depend upon whether NFHS or NCAA.

NFHS the initial direction at the release of the ball determines forward or backward. NCAA direction is determined by where the ball was released and where it ends as to whether forward or backward.

However, based upon the description of the play apparently the ball has not been released when the RB is hit and the ball comes loose before the RB contacts the ground.

Rule it a fumble and award a score to the defense.

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally posted by kdf5

Officials Manual, last page, Guides for When in question:

Incomplete pass or fumble = incomplete pass
Forward or backward = forward.

Sounds like a good one to blow dead with flag in pocket.

The problem I have with that reasoning is that that particular guideline was almost certainly written with a "normal" behind-the-LOS pass in mind.

If I thought the runner, beyond the LOS, was attempting a backward pass, then no hit by the defense is going to turn that into a forward pass. Like Ed, I've got a fumble and a defensive TD.