Help with a High School rule

[bisonlj]

If the receiver does not get tackled when pushed back into the field of play with that initial contact, you do not have forward progress so he is not awarded a TD unless he gets back into the end zone. I think there is a case play that clarifies this but i can't find it. I know I've read it in other publications and this has been discussed at many of the clinics I've attended. Am I missing something here?

[HLin NC]

If the receiver does not get tackled when pushed back into the field of play

Incorrect

Case play-

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Incorrect

Case play-

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

This play involves forward progress. If he's pushed back but that does not cause the receiver to be downed, forward progress does not apply. Just because a guy gets pushed back, if he gets free from the tackler, he doesn't get credit for the forward progress of the original hit.

[Robert Goodman]

So the defender should try to shove the airborne receiver back but not hold on to him long enough to complete the tackle? And not to shove him across the sideline in the field of play either?

We know that if the receiver is carried off the ground out of bounds by an opponent after the catch, the pass is complete. No equivalent benefit if he's carried out of the end zone and dropped?

[Ed Hickland]

When A possesses the ball in B's end zone it is a touchdown and the ball is dead. Period.

[HLin NC]

This play involves forward progress.

That is what the OP references, he just doesn't use the terminology.

[bisonlj]

Forward progress doesn't apply if the defender hits a receiver but doesn't tackle him. It's just a hit. It would be equivalent to a running back running into the line, hitting a defender and bouncing it around the outside. You don't declare forward progress at the point of the first hit. Forward progess applies if the runner is tackled or gives up his ability to advance.

[whitehat]

We were discussing possession after a catch of an airborne player on a similar thread.
There seems to be an inconsistency: A player is airborne in the EZ (like the forward progress situation described above), he is pushed back out of EZ while airborn to 1yd line. We have said TD because as soon as forward progress is ruled then play is over. I agree. Yet, what if that player looses the ball while still airborne as he comes down on the 1yd line? If the forward progress determines the TD then it should still be a TD right? If not, explain

Further, why is it a TD when forward progress is ruled in the above situation but not a TD, say 5 yards deep in the EZ as A player possesses the ball while airborne, is hit and then looses control of ball on the way down to the ground or as he hits the ground?

[ajmc]

It's my understanding that a catch (anywhere) has not been completed until an airborne receiver returns to the ground in possession of the ball. When possession is obtained while ariborne, and subsequently lost before returning to the ground, the pass has not been caught and the pass is considered incomplete, whereas forward progress is irrelevant.

If I follow your second example, that pass would be incomplete as well, for the same reason.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

When A possesses the ball in B's end zone it is a touchdown and the ball is dead. Period.

I disagree with this statement. You do not have a completed catch at this point. Thus, I don't believe we have a TD yet.

[HLin NC]

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is
contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he
is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over
B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came
down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A
possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

I swear by all that is Holy this is copied directly from the 2009 Fed case book.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is
contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he
is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over
B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came
down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A
possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

I swear by all that is Holy this is copied directly from the 2009 Fed case book.

You guys are all missing the point. Forward progress only applies when it is "the end of advancement" (as quoted from 2-15-1). If I am hit while airborn and not tackled or the ball is otherwise declared dead because I'm getting pushed back (forward progress awarded), I have not ended my advancement. If that hit only pushes him back and he first touches the ground outside the end zone, he is not awarded forward progress. That is the definition everyone seems to be missing. I don't think it's vague at all. Since forward progress is not awarded if the receiver regains control and gets away from the defender, you do not award forward progress. The case book above even mentions "where he is downed" implying the receiver was tackled as part of the contact.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

7.5.2 SITUATION J: A8, in B’s end zone, leaps in the air to catch a pass and is
contacted by B2 forcing A8 to come down inbounds on B’s 1-yard line where he
is downed. RULING: Touchdown, since A8’s forward progress was stopped over
B’s end zone by B2’s contact. Even though the catch was not made until A8 came
down inbounds, his forward progress was stopped by B2’s contact resulting in A
possessing the live ball in its opponent’s end zone, hence, a touchdown.

I swear by all that is Holy this is copied directly from the 2009 Fed case book.

This is also irrelevent to my previous post. I understand that if and when he completes the catch it will be a touchdown. However, at the moment he possesses the ball in the air and is pushed back does not equal a TD. If the receiver loses the ball prior to completing the catch, I don't believe you have a TD. Thus, my disagreement with Ed's post.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

This play involves forward progress. If he's pushed back but that does not cause the receiver to be downed, forward progress does not apply. Just because a guy gets pushed back, if he gets free from the tackler, he doesn't get credit for the forward progress of the original hit.

Put the crack pipe on the table and step away.

When he touches the ground, the play is complete and we have a TD.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Put the crack pipe on the table and step away.

When he touches the ground, the play is complete and we have a TD.

Amen. Just read the rules and case play cited, and don't overanalyze. That's the problem, is so many times we overanalyze something and we lose focus of what the rule/case play actually says.